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Our Big 3?

Saint Cy of JFC said:
Hayward would play the same way dude.
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I feel like last year haywad was our best scorer, passer and creator. I think on this team he wouldn't be the best at any of those things. I think mitchell would be our first option scorer and i think that rubio and maybe even ingles would be better creators/passers.
But again, your opinion of haywad is much higher than mine. I assume you think haywad would be the go to guy on almost every team in the league.
I also think that haywad on the wizards would look different as well.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Hayward played with Hood and Hill, who were both higher usage than Ricky Rubio. It's not like Hayward was ever a ball dominant guy who couldnt play next to multiple ball-handlers and co-exist. Hayward was a playmaker through and through. Porter isnt. Porter is a guy who can make the right pass and play within a system. Porter cant break the paint or force defenders to foul him. He's a finesse player who can really shoot and plays smart.

Hayward could easily play with Mitchell and Mitchell still be taking as many shots. It would be guys llke Rubio, Ingles, and Crowder who would take less shots/get the ball less.
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I have never seen Porter play without beal and wall for a season so I cant say definitively if porter cant be a playmaker. Either way, with mitchell, rubio and ingles I wouldn't want him to be.
 
fishonjazz said:
I feel like last year haywad was our best scorer, passer and creator. I think on this team he wouldn't be the best at any of those things. I think mitchell would be our first option scorer and i think that rubio and maybe even ingles would be better creators/passers.
But again, your opinion of haywad is much higher than mine. I assume you think haywad would be the go to guy on almost every team in the league.
I also think that haywad on the wizards would look different as well.
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Hayward was clearly a better scorer last year than Mitchell was this year. If history continued and Hayward improved incrementally again like he has every year, he would still be the better scorer this year. I think next year or the following Mitchell would overtake him in the scoring department. They would easily be able to play off each other, and both would probably be better for it. This is a straight dumpster take from you Fish and has no basis in any fact.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Like I get people dont like Hayward, but holy **** the revisionist history of what kind of player Hayward was is ridiculous.
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I didn't even say anything about what type of player haywad was lol other than to say he was our best player last year and our best scorer and best passer and creator. I guess you think that is slighting him somehow. You sure do get worked up about him easy.
I was just saying that imo he would look differently on this different jazz team. Neither one of us can really know for sure as its simply a hypothetical so i dont see a difference of opinon as anything to get so worked up about. Damn dude. chill.
 
Like, this is crazy ****, but a lot of teams are able to balance having two guys who score over 20 ppg. Some teams even have 3 of them. Those are usually the best teams.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Hayward was clearly a better scorer last year than Mitchell was this year. If history continued and Hayward improved incrementally again like he has every year, he would still be the better scorer this year. I think next year or the following Mitchell would overtake him in the scoring department. They would easily be able to play off each other, and both would probably be better for it. This is a straight dumpster take from you Fish and has no basis in any fact.
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I think he would look great next to mitchell. Sorry for agreeing with you as that means your take is a dumpster apparently. I think mitchell is and will be the better scorer though. I think that hayward had more time in system and a supporting cast that fit better and had more talent than the one mithchell has.
To me JJ, hood and hill were better threats last year than this teams threats and hayward was able to capatalize on the better looks afforded to him. Mitchell takes more difficult shots imo and has too.
Agree to disagree.
 
fishonjazz said:
I didn't even say anything about what type of player haywad was lol other than to say he was our best player last year and our best scorer and best passer and creator. I guess you think that is slighting him somehow. You sure do get worked up about him easy.
I was just saying that imo he would look differently on this different jazz team. Neither one of us can really know for sure as its simply a hypothetical so i dont see a difference of opinon as anything to get so worked up about. Damn dude. chill.
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He wouldnt look different. You dont change your best players from a 50 win team to that degree just because you add another really good player. You change the roles of the supporting players. Look at any "super team" for evidence of this. Nothing about the way Hayward played last year would get in the way of another high usage star being on the team and Hayward doing the exact same thing he did that year.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Like, this is crazy ****, but a lot of teams are able to balance having two guys who score over 20 ppg. Some teams even have 3 of them. Those are usually the best teams.
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I think mitchell and hayward would be great together. I know that thoughts like that are dumpsters so sorry for thinking they would be great together.
I hope you calm down and get over it soon.

Good luck!
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
He wouldnt look different. You dont change your best players from a 50 win team to that degree just because you add another really good player. You change the roles of the supporting players. Look at any "super team" for evidence of this. Nothing about the way Hayward played last year would get in the way of another high usage star being on the team and Hayward doing the exact same thing he did that year.
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You think he would be the exact same. I think he would be slightly different. Agreed? Can we move on now?
 
fishonjazz said:
I think he would look great next to mitchell. Sorry for agreeing with you as that means your take is a dumpster apparently. I think mitchell is and will be the better scorer though. I think that hayward had more time in system and a supporting cast that fit better and had more talent than the one mithchell has.
To me JJ, hood and hill were better threats last year than this teams threats and hayward was able to capatalize on the better looks afforded to him. Mitchell takes more difficult shots imo and has too.
Agree to disagree.
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You are able to look at stats right? Better scorer is a pretty objective thing for the most part.

Hayward shot the 3 better, got to the foul line better, and scored more efficiently from the field.

Are Donovan's raw scoring instincts better than Hayward's? Yes, certainly, but the point still stands that last year Hayward was a better scorer and would be this year too. Donovan will eventually overtake him in that category, but it hasnt happened yet.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
You are able to look at stats right? Better scorer is a pretty objective thing for the most part.

Hayward shot the 3 better, got to the foul line better, and scored more efficiently from the field.

Are Donovan's raw scoring instincts better than Hayward's? Yes, certainly, but the point still stands that last year Hayward was a better scorer and would be this year too. Donovan will eventually overtake him in that category, but it hasnt happened yet.
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I simply think that what is going on around you effects your scoring ability. Agree to disagree.
I agree that hayward was a better scorer last year on that team than mitchell is this year on this team. agree to agree i guess. Sorry.
 
NUMBERICA said:
QFT.
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Do you have any examples of someone (other than mission accomplished it think it is) dissing or trash talking how good haywad was?
In this particular thread and the recent discussion Cy and myself were both talking about how great haywad was. I was saying that he was our best player last year and best passer/creator and best scorer and a great defender. I got the feeling that Cy thought he was pretty good too.
 
Hayward was and is a great player. He's no longer on our team or in our future. Why the hell are we even talking about Gordon Hayward?

I feel like I'm hanging out with my buddies at the bar and we're talking about a buddy getting back with his tramp ex girlfriend who slept with a few guys behind his back. "Wouldn't it be awesome if you could take her to formal?"
 
Ok... this is what I’ve been saying on Parker.. with getting lots of flack.. we need a big 3.. absolutely.. Aaron Gordon, while good, will get matched and get a max I think.. have you watched Jabari in the playoffs? He is totally disengaged.. he wants out and you can see it.. I think he can be had had for around 15 to 20.. he’s the only reasonable get at a big 3 we have.. unless we draft one.. I think you have to take the risk.. maybe a short term deal? I really think we need to take a long hard look at him.. he was elite last year before his injury.. some of his games since coming back you could see his dunking and explosion is back.
 
jiggamanjazz said:
Ok... this is what I’ve been saying on Parker.. with getting lots of flack.. we need a big 3.. absolutely.. Aaron Gordon, while good, will get matched and get a max I think.. have you watched Jabari in the playoffs? He is totally disengaged.. he wants out and you can see it.. I think he can be had had for around 15 to 20.. he’s the only reasonable get at a big 3 we have.. unless we draft one.. I think you have to take the risk.. maybe a short term deal? I really think we need to take a long hard look at him.. he was elite last year before his injury.. some of his games since coming back you could see his dunking and explosion is back.
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I think that if there is a chance to work a S&T deal with the Bucks, the Jazz should take a shot at it. Assuming, of course, they feel confident they could get his defense improved with some good coaching/solid system.

I don't like the idea of playing the 'let's offer a contract they won't match' game. In part, because I think it ends in an overpay, but moreso because it would likely mean sacrificing Dante for a shot. Call me a silly Exum homer, but I'm not convinced that Jabari presents that much better of a shot at a star-quality player than Exum continuing to develop (and I tend to lean to the pro-Jabari potential end of things).
 
When it comes to the Big 3 solution, is there anybody who we really, really like in the lottery? Mitchell, Crowder, Ingles, Gobert and O'Neal are locked in for 2 years after this one (until at least summer 2020). We have the ability to keep Exum long term as well. Burks is the rather large, expendable contract that expires after next year.

If there is a player we like well enough, I'm all for using Burks to take back a bad contract that expires in 2020 if we can get into the top 10. Is Porter Jr, either of the Bridges, Jaren Jackson, Carter Jr, Doncic worth taking a bad contract that goes a year longer than Burks?

Is there anybody we are that sold on? I feel like we have the financial flexibility if we believe in a pick more than a gamble like Jabari. Because really, Jabari making $19 the next 4 years could be worse than somebody like Noah making $19 the next two. Jabari could screw up keeping everybody together if he ends up being below average.
 
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