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Our P&R Offense

The Thriller

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if it's as easy to see on TV... But I noticed a few things last night while watching the game in person...

Our P&R offense is astonishingly bad. Like... Just as bad as our P&R defense!

#1 Our guards rarely actually attack off the P&R. Meaning, Hayward and Burke in particular, really circle off the hedging and back away from contact. This really takes the pressure of the defense and essentially kills the offensive play. It destroys any potential of the ball carrier attacking the big and breaking the defense by getting inside.
The only person to actually make crisp cuts and maintain an attacking dribble off the P&R is Burks.

#2 We rarely reverse pass the P&R. Meaning, 9 times out of 10, if they hedge, we keep our dribble alive and pass the ball into the flow of the defense. Sometimes, (not too often) the offensive player in the corner was wide open. All Burke or hayward had to do was spin back away from the hedging defender and pass it to the corner. Deron Williams was exceptionally good at doing this when he was here. He often could hit Boozer setting the screen, Memo who often was at the wing waiting to shoot a 3, or reverse pivot/dribble and hit AK/Brewer/Matthews in the corner for a wide open 3 or drive.

#3 Here's the biggest thing... Amare Favors is completely being ignored. There were 7 times I counted, where he set the pick, rolled to the hoop, had Bosh pinned or beat, and the ball stayed out on the perimeter. The fan sitting next to me noticed this as well and began to complain. It seriously looked like we were ignoring Favors in favor of 3 pointers from the wing.

Now luckily, Marvin and Jeffy were hitting the shots. However, midway through the 3rd Favors showed frustration, waved his arms up in the air, was ignored, and was shook his head all pissed off. If we used Favors like the Suns used Amare (or how we used to use Malone) he would easily be a 20 pt scorer. He has always been a good roller and finisher. But I think finally he has figured out how to pin his guy off the roll and use his body to his advantage.

Are we purposely ignoring Favors to shoot more 3s?

Anyone else notice our turrible P&R offense? As long as Marvin is hitting 3s I guess it might be harder to notice these things. But we are really not executing very well. Just basic things we're not doing. And how do you not feed the ball to Favors???
 
When I actually get around to watching the jazz, everything looks bad. There's no tempo... no flow... everything looks like it's been chewed while pinching the nose.
 
I noticed months ago that using Hayward in a p&r with Favors or Kanter is a waste of time. Either Hayward doesn't know how to run the p&r or he doesn't like giving the ball up to either of the big men. Since the 1st reason isn't believable given his high BB IQ, then I am left thinking that he is either too selfish to let Favors or Kanter shine or he has no faith in their ability to score.
 
The Thriller said:
#3 Here's the biggest thing... Amare Favors is completely being ignored. There were 7 times I counted, where he set the pick, rolled to the hoop, had Bosh pinned or beat, and the ball stayed out on the perimeter. The fan sitting next to me noticed this as well and began to complain. It seriously looked like we were ignoring Favors in favor of 3 pointers from the wing.

Now luckily, Marvin and Jeffy were hitting the shots. However, midway through the 3rd Favors showed frustration, waved his arms up in the air, was ignored, and was shook his head all pissed off. If we used Favors like the Suns used Amare (or how we used to use Malone) he would easily be a 20 pt scorer. He has always been a good roller and finisher. But I think finally he has figured out how to pin his guy off the roll and use his body to his advantage.

Are we purposely ignoring Favors to shoot more 3s?

Anyone else notice our turrible P&R offense? As long as Marvin is hitting 3s I guess it might be harder to notice these things. But we are really not executing very well. Just basic things we're not doing. And how do you not feed the ball to Favors???
Click to expand...

I noticed this as well last night. And the game in Dallas too.



Sent from the JazzFanz app
 
This team's one of the youngest one in the league and yet, we have not seen any up tempo on offense (Check out the Clippers and Suns basketball and see how dangerous it's). It's just so easy to defend jazz basketball. For the starting 5, our offense includes Burke's midrange jumpers (So inconsistent), Hayward's dribblings (Generally turnover or unbalanced shots), Marvin set up 3's and Favors' offensive boards.

The PnR offense is so effective but also easy to make it happen if you have suitable players. It's been told over and over but the team does not use Favors' quick 1st step and rolling to the rim. He can either make the basket or goes to the FT line. Also i have never seen the PnP with Marwin. He's in the starting 5 to be stretch PF but he just waits for the 3 ball shot. The minus and big part on offense also is slow motion off the ball. When Hayward or Burke gets the ball, all players watch them as we fans and wonder what will happen. It shows the coaching and level of sharp offense that we do not have at the moment.
 
That's odd given Burke was the best PNR point guard I have seen in college @U of M. I think it's Corbin's system. 1st Hayward just isn't that great at creating(I know it's odd to say after he has 11 assist). 2nd Burke doesn't really run the PNR much when I watch the Jazz. He mostly just brings the ball across the timeline, dribbles(or holds) the ball at the top of the 3pt line, and passes to Hayward then Gordon initiates the offense. Trey usually doesn't touch the ball again unless the play breaks down late in the 24sec clock and is left to shoot a 3 or a deep 2.

With a PNR guard like Burke and a body agile body like Favors you expect to see the two man game with them, and it happen early in the season with consistent success. Then it's like Corbin decided it was too simple and thought it was better to late Gordon handle the ball and run more motion plays. Which usually ends up with Enes posting, Hayward taking a bad shot or Trey taking deep shots.
 
da ThRONe said:
That's odd given Burke was the best PNR point guard I have seen in college @U of M. I think it's Corbin's system. 1st Hayward just isn't that great at creating(I know it's odd to say after he has 11 assist). 2nd Burke doesn't really run the PNR much when I watch the Jazz. He mostly just brings the ball across the timeline, dribbles(or holds) the ball at the top of the 3pt line, and passes to Hayward then Gordon initiates the offense. Trey usually doesn't touch the ball again unless the play breaks down late in the 24sec clock and is left to shoot a 3 or a deep 2.

With a PNR guard like Burke and a body agile body like Favors you expect to see the two man game with them, and it happen early in the season with consistent success. Then it's like Corbin decided it was too simple and thought it was better to late Gordon handle the ball and run more motion plays. Which usually ends up with Enes posting, Hayward taking a bad shot or Trey taking deep shots.
Click to expand...

You do realize that the pros is way tougher than college, right? Trey's doing fine for a rookie point guard in the NBA.

The problem is the Jazz are young and have players with many holes in their game. The offense is expected to be bad, the team is bad.
 
well burke runs p&R Beautifully.
but for some reason his only job seems to bring the ball up and stand somewhere for a spot up jump shot.

but who cares anyway first time in forever i ahve not watch 2 games in a row.
not even the boxscore or play by play live.

sick and tired of this crap.


we need burke to run the offense.
with kanter and favors P&R.

with hayward spot up shooter.
and burks for if the offense to break down he'll unleash hell.

burks and hayward for uptempo fastbreak
 
Burke started playing aggressive off P&R after coming back from his injury but few games later he settled quite a bit into "I'll dribble a little bit more at 3pt line and see what happens" which I believe is part of the system.
I am also puzzled why OP mentioned Burks as one who uses screens properly. In fact he used to be the one who ignored set picks most among our guards.
 
LazyD said:
You do realize that the pros is way tougher than college, right? Trey's doing fine for a rookie point guard in the NBA.

The problem is the Jazz are young and have players with many holes in their game. The offense is expected to be bad, the team is bad.
Click to expand...

That's the thing when Trey 1st came back from the finger injury he ran the PNR very well. Go and look at his highlights in games against the Suns, Rockets, Spurs, Magic and Kings. Not sure why Corbin went away from it.
 
LazyD said:
You do realize that the pros is way tougher than college, right? Trey's doing fine for a rookie point guard in the NBA.

The problem is the Jazz are young and have players with many holes in their game. The offense is expected to be bad, the team is bad.
Click to expand...

Looking for a wide open Favors off the P&R isn't rocket science.
 
zbone said:
Burke started playing aggressive off P&R after coming back from his injury but few games later he settled quite a bit into "I'll dribble a little bit more at 3pt line and see what happens" which I believe is part of the system.
I am also puzzled why OP mentioned Burks as one who uses screens properly. In fact he used to be the one who ignored set picks most among our guards.
Click to expand...

exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
The problem in my opinion is that the jazz have not the players for an efficient pick and roll game. The only one is Favors. Despite Enes' dunk against the Heat, this is not his game because he lacks athleticism. He is more suited for the pick and pop game which i personally hate because its a bit of gambling a kind of all or nothing play. Best case you score and get the 2 points and the worst case 0 points. Have never seen an and one resulting from a pick and pop.

In the pick and roll scenario the best case is an and one that means 3 points. The chances are high enough to score 2 points. If you do it correct the worst case is a pair of free throws and Favors is able to make at least one of them.

Gordon and Trey are able to do these kind of plays but as i mentioned the bigs arent...
 
berat_36 said:
The problem in my opinion is that the jazz have not the players for an efficient pick and roll game. The only one is Favors. Despite Enes' dunk against the Heat, this is not his game because he lacks athleticism. He is more suited for the pick and pop game which i personally hate because its a bit of gambling a kind of all or nothing play. Best case you score and get the 2 points and the worst case 0 points. Have never seen an and one resulting from a pick and pop.

In the pick and roll scenario the best case is an and one that means 3 points. The chances are high enough to score 2 points. If you do it correct the worst case is a pair of free throws and Favors is able to make at least one of them.

Gordon and Trey are able to do these kind of plays but as i mentioned the bigs arent...
Click to expand...

So why is Favors being ignored?
 
berat_36 said:
The problem in my opinion is that the jazz have not the players for an efficient pick and roll game. The only one is Favors. Despite Enes' dunk against the Heat, this is not his game because he lacks athleticism. He is more suited for the pick and pop game which i personally hate because its a bit of gambling a kind of all or nothing play. Best case you score and get the 2 points and the worst case 0 points. Have never seen an and one resulting from a pick and pop.

In the pick and roll scenario the best case is an and one that means 3 points. The chances are high enough to score 2 points. If you do it correct the worst case is a pair of free throws and Favors is able to make at least one of them.

Gordon and Trey are able to do these kind of plays but as i mentioned the bigs arent...
Click to expand...


so your saying they cannot learn/practice/develop this?
 
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