Our young wings and James Harden

[BYE]

To be honest, i think if the jazz did land harden they would not know how to use him correctly..... he would still get minutes and decent stats but he would be held back by our coaching/system and probably average around 18 pts a game, instead of the 25-30 he is capable of.

If that's the case, then we're screwed anyway!

 

[BYE]

Well if Harden keeps playing like this, there will be a lot of people who would want to change their vote including me. I thought he was a very good player but he certainly is showing he can be a great player. Some people think all the Jazz have to do is talk and people will give them what they want. How does anyone know if the Jazz attempted to get him or not?

We don't know, but I think we could have offered them close if not better to what OKC got. Everything we mention from here on out sounds silly since we know what he can do, so the only thing we can do is compare it to what OKC got. Can you imagine OKC with this year's Harden, Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka. That is one hell of a closing 4. Would have been the best pg/wing combo in the entire NBA coupled with the leading shot blocker in the league and Perkins (he sucks).

 

[NUMBERICA]

This is much tougher to handle than the Gasol trade.

 

[BYE]

This is much tougher to handle than the Gasol trade.

It is for me since we were in a fantastic position to make a move. We had assets, picks, expiring contracts, young promising players, everything. Players like Harden do not come around very often at all. Hopefully, with our financial flexibility, we can strike gold like Houston!

 

[franklin]

It is for me since we were in a fantastic position to make a move. We had assets, picks, expiring contracts, young promising players, everything. Players like Harden do not come around very often at all. Hopefully, with our financial flexibility, we can strike gold like Houston!

What were YOU willing to give up after Kanter's preseason though? The only member who really stepped up was billyshelby. I didn't even set myself onto a cut branch. Neither did NUMBERICA (crediting his post commentary).

 

[BYE]

What were YOU willing to give up after Kanter's preseason though? The only member who really stepped up was billyshelby. I didn't even set myself onto a cut branch. Neither did NUMBERICA (crediting his post commentary).

I would have offered anyone but Favors and Kanter in any combination (trying to not have hindsight here), our GS pick, our #1 and #2 picks, cash, the rights to Ante Tomic, Free passes to Snowbird, and Karl Malone's mother's secret fried chicken recipe.

 

[BYE]

I notice that the ratio is now moving up 15/35.

 

[billyshelby]

There are deals we should have turned down for Harden. But not many. We'll never know what we turned down, but we definitely had more to offer than Houston. My guess is Jazz management is still highly confused as to the Favors/Kanter upside. If they truly believed in one, they would have dealt Hayward/the Unchosen for Harden. And that should have gotten a deal done. But they don't have that read so they let the deal go. I can't totally blame them in that specific circumstance if that's what they were up against.

 

[Hotdog]

To be honest, i think if the jazz did land harden they would not know how to use him correctly..... he would still get minutes and decent stats but he would be held back by our coaching/system and probably average around 18 pts a game, instead of the 25-30 he is capable of.

Thats probably true...

 

[fishonjazz]

There are deals we should have turned down for Harden. But not many. We'll never know what we turned down, but we definitely had more to offer than Houston. My guess is Jazz management is still highly confused as to the Favors/Kanter upside. If they truly believed in one, they would have dealt Hayward/the Unchosen for Harden. And that should have gotten a deal done. But they don't have that read so they let the deal go. I can't totally blame them in that specific circumstance if that's what they were up against.

Best part of this post: "jazz management is still highly confused as to the favors/kanter upside".
Hard to know what you have in a player when all they do is sit on the bench.

 

[BYE]

More Harden Info:

How many times as this been accomplished: 37, 6, 12, 4 with player 23 or under in NBA history? Answer = 2
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=23&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=37&c2stat=trb&c2comp=gt&c2val=6&c3stat=ast&c3comp=gt&c3val=12&c4stat=stl&c4comp=gt&c4val=4&order_by=pts

In NBA history at any age? Answer = 6
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=37&c2stat=trb&c2comp=gt&c2val=6&c3stat=ast&c3comp=gt&c3val=12&c4stat=stl&c4comp=gt&c4val=4&order_by=pts

How many times has this been accomplished: 45, 7, 2 with player under the age of 23? Answer = 41
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=23&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=45&c2stat=trb&c2comp=gt&c2val=7&c3stat=ast&c3comp=gt&c3val=2&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

With 70% or higher on field goals? Answer = 9
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=23&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=45&c2stat=trb&c2comp=gt&c2val=7&c3stat=ast&c3comp=gt&c3val=2&c4stat=fg_pct&c4comp=gt&c4val=.7&order_by=pts

With 3pt % of 50% or higher? Answer = 3 (you have to count)
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=23&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=45&c2stat=trb&c2comp=gt&c2val=7&c3stat=ast&c3comp=gt&c3val=2&c4stat=fg_pct&c4comp=gt&c4val=.7&order_by=pts

Conclusion: the overrated player Harden, on a team with whom he did not have training camp, did something that only one other player had ever done (in his first game with Houston). In his second game, he did something that only two others had done in relative NBA history.

That is elite and worth the contract.

 

[zman1527]

What were YOU willing to give up after Kanter's preseason though? The only member who really stepped up was billyshelby. I didn't even set myself onto a cut branch. Neither did NUMBERICA (crediting his post commentary).

I said that I would have traded anyone and anything on the team for harden, including either favors or kanter (not both) along with someone else and picks. Guys like Harden are very rare and we missed a great opportunity. Fortunately, I can console myself with the fact that, according to Jazzfanz, once Burks gets some minutes he will make Harden look like a chump.

 

[franklin]

I said that I would have traded anyone and anything on the team for harden, including either favors or kanter (not both) along with someone else and picks. Guys like Harden are very rare and we missed a great opportunity. Fortunately, I can console myself with the fact that, according to Jazzfanz, once Burks gets some minutes he will make Harden look like a chump.

Great post. Please add this to your well deserved spot in my post whoring thread so your forward looking genius can be forever enshrined on jazzfanz and easily located inside the halls of I TOLD YOU SO.


not sarcasm

 

[zman1527]

Great post. Please add this to your well deserved spot in my post whoring thread so your forward looking genius can be forever enshrined on jazzfanz and easily located inside the halls of I TOLD YOU SO.


not sarcasm

An even greater post. Thanks for your recommendations.

My post was a response to an earlier one where it indicated that only one poster here had recommmended gettting Harden at just about any cost. I made my post above not to show my brilliance but to indicate that Harden's value was more obvious than too many homers here want to believe.

not sarcasm either.

 

[fishonjazz]

I said that I would have traded anyone and anything on the team for harden, including either favors or kanter (not both) along with someone else and picks. Guys like Harden are very rare and we missed a great opportunity. Fortunately, I can console myself with the fact that, according to Jazzfanz, once Burks gets some minutes he will make Harden look like a chump.

I dont think people on jazzfanz think burks is better than harden (if they do they are dumb). Most of us just think he deserves more than 0 minutes per game..... that doesn't seem unreasonable.

Do you think burks should NEVER play?

 

[zman1527]

I dont think people on jazzfanz think burks is better than harden (if they do they are dumb). Most of us just think he deserves more than 0 minutes per game..... that doesn't seem unreasonable.

Do you think burks should NEVER play?

A few posters have put Burks in the same sentence with D Wade and J Harden. Pretty crazy.

Do I think he should never play? No way. I want to see him get minutes and see where he can get. Right now I suspect he is going to be average at best but who knows until we play him. I hope he surprises me hugely to the upside.

That said, I would have traded him and Hayward and anyone else for Harden in a heartbeat.

 

[fishonjazz]

A few posters have put Burks in the same sentence with D Wade and J Harden. Pretty crazy.

Do I think he should never play? No way. I want to see him get minutes and see where he can get. Right now I suspect he is going to be average at best but who knows until we play him. I hope he surprises me hugely to the upside.

That said, I would have traded him and Hayward and anyone else for Harden in a heartbeat.

Agreed.

As far as the burks being in the same sentence as d wade and harden, when they were rookies no one knew how good or bad they would be but im sure that the miami and okc fanbases made comparisons of them with great players as well.
I have always compared burks to wade due to the way they both play: fast explosive guys that get the rim and free throw line, both with questionable outside shooting.
I dont think he is similar to harden however.