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Pacers @ Jazz Game Thread

Embrace the tank guys. Getting our *** kicked at home by the Pacers, yikes.

My expectations has definitely changed from the start of the season. At this point I just want the following:
i) Watch DM play, scoring 50 one game and maybe winning ROY
ii) Exum coming back, shining alongside DM
iii) Front office making moves during the deadline, setting up the team for the future
iv) Drop to the bottom 8 and increase our chances for a top 3 pick
v) See some chemistry between Ricky and Rudy. I don't think we will trade Bricky this season, so why not enjoy some lobs to Rudy
 
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str8line: So will O'Neale turn into a player? I'm thinking no, but am I wrong?
oneye: AB should be better. He has a body built for basketball. I really don’t get why he’s not better
yamers: HES ****ING GARBAGE
Jazzta: Jingles can't keep up for so long in a game
Saint: Jazz really need to change the starting lineup
yamers: AB's problem is simple
yamers: hes a total IDIOT
str8line: Burks has a dinosaur brain.
yamers: his iq might be 12
sojodave: Yikes, that was ugly
Saint: Start Hood, somehow
yamers: trae young
yamers: or
yamers: porter jr?
Sneakers: https://twitter.com/davidjsmith1232/status/953117231663083521
Jazz4ever: Tank rolls on
yamers: Rubio: 2 pts (1-7, 0-1), 5 rbds, 0 asts, 2 stls, 2 tov
Ingles: 0 pts (0-1, 0-1), 0 rbds, 1 ast, 1 stl, 2 tov
Catchall: So dayum the tank is real
RobDMB: This team has looked like a steaming pile of garbage as of late.
yamers: ****
yamers: SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE
Ellipse: And now we are 9 games below .500.
RobDMB: No shot makers other than Donovan
Ostertag>Duncan: I just don't see how anyone is not for the tank at this point
Sneakers: i mean they can be for or against it, makes no difference
RobDMB: Yep, tank this thing
Jazz4ever: There is heavy anti tank machinery up next, the Kings
Ostertag>Duncan: If you try to win, you're literally only playing for a worse draft pick
Ron: I'm just hoping we get to see both Gobert and exum this season. We need to see how they fit with Mitchell.
Ostertag>Duncan: and more mediocre seasons to come
Jazzta: I'm for tanking but the proper way
str8line: Remember after that amazing game early season when I questioned if we could possibly play with GS if at our best? Yeah, that was dumb.
RobDMB: Trade everyone we can get value for, and dedicate the rest of this year to developing Donovan
oneye: I’m for getting Rudy and Mitchell on the floor together. But for limited times, avoiding injuries and yes maybe it’s time to just tank
Sneakers: does anyone know if there's a site where i can look at a player's stats since like, for example, game 5
Sneakers: like a specific game range
Sneakers: and their averages
Ostertag>Duncan: if you're really about winning, you suck it up and tank hard this season and regroup for next year, and you'll see a lot more winning for the years to
Ostertag>Duncan: come
Jazzta: If you tank make the appropriate moves on the trade deadline


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Sneakers: i am hoping the trade deadline is cathartic
yamers: Rubio: 2 pts (1-7, 0-1), 5 rbds, 0 asts, 2 stls, 2 tov
Ingles: 0 pts (0-1, 0-1), 0 rbds, 1 ast, 1 stl, 2 tov
Jazzta: To tank
Sneakers: to sort of turn the page on the season
yamers: rubio 14mil
yamers: ingles 14mil?
RobDMB: Mirotic won't fix this dumpster fire
str8line: I'm bummed for Ingles.
Jazzta: No
Saint: Mirotic and Rudy returning
Saint: would probably fix the dumspter fire
Jazzta: in time though?
RobDMB: We were supposed to have a defensive identity but that seems like it is lost too
Jazz4ever: it would, but for what, just fight tooth and nail for an 8th seed?
Saint: Its hard to play defense when you play taht bad offensively
yamers: hard to have a defensive idneitiy when ure defenive anchor is gone
Witty: when will quin stop the gospel rhetoric with his postgame comments
yamers: and your PG is rubio
yamers: who doesn't play defense with his feet
Saint: and when your three top defensive players are injured
Witty: the worse this team looks the bigger idiot he looks
yamers: but just kind of swipes at ****
Catchall: Jazz just snuck by Charlotte for the 10th pick
yamers: and manages to get a steal or two
yamers: and then people showhow think THATs good defense
Catchall: Jazz just a half game ahead of Chicago for the 9th pick
Saint: w/e the case is
Saint: I think Quin has to start Hood
Saint: he can't roll w/ 4 non scorers in teh starting lineup
Ellipse: There is no point in mortgaging our future for 1.5 years of Mirotic. If we want him, pick him up when he is a FA..
RobDMB: This era of the NBA has made Rubio worthless
Saint: Dog no one is saying mortgage the future
Saint: Rubio is not worthless
Saint: he is worthless on a team that doesnt have a starting lineup w/ more than 2 scorers
Jazzta: If I were Lindsey I'd say look, we came across Mitchell, let's build around him and ship some assets for picks
Jazzta: Come February
RobDMB: Okay, but he has to be surrounded by shooters, which we don't have
yamers: rubio in any era is worthless
Saint: not shooters, scorers
DownUnder: Ricky is worthless on this team. We should do him a solid and send him somewhere he can play with a good offensive team around him.


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yamers: fools forgot stockton could shoot
yamers: and was tough
Jazz4ever: No assets Jazzta
Saint: Shooting isnt the Jazzs problem
yamers: and played defense
str8line: The outlook needs to be 3-4 years out.
DownUnder: We can't keep playing him unless it's tanking
oneye: Anyone who says shooting isn’t the Jazz problem isn’t crazy
Jazzta: Favors has value
Saint: it's the the shooters we have are forced into larger creation roles than thhey should be playing
Witty: can't wait to hear quin's brilliant mind tap dance around the utter dumpster of this time
Witty: dumpster fire
oneye: Is
DownUnder: favors has little value
Jazz4ever: ^
Jazzta: There's room for Favors on quite a few teams
Witty: what im confused about out.. is the FO and coaching staff unagreed on tanking? trading? who is it
DownUnder: not for any significant asset
Witty: does the FO want to trade?
str8line: If we go on an epic losing streak how good of a pick could we get?
yamers: FO wants to tank
yamers: surely
Witty: if thats the case then we need to get quin's head out of his ****
sojodave: Favors is on an expiring contract, who would value a player for just a few months
yamers: snyder as a coach of course believes they can right this ship
DownUnder: we're within reach of a top 5 pick at this pace
yamers: but look at the ****in roster
yamers: u got freakin JOE INGLES
yamers: RUBIO
Jazzta: He's not the kind of player that jumps ship just like that though
yamers: BURKS, JONAS JEREBKO, FAVORS
yamers: omfgggggggggggggggggggggg
Witty: i would think the FO would want to mix up the roster to try to get butts in the seats
Witty: and give people hope
Jazzta: if he finds his place he would likely stay
Witty: i miss the quin that yelled at rudy and we beat the thunder
DownUnder: if we don't trade 2-3 players i'll be pissed
str8line: Hire Obama as a halftime show to bring hope?
Witty: now he just silently looks like he's developing a massive ulcer
Sneakers: maybe this is our karma for enabling the Warriors dynasty by facilitating the Iguodala trade


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Some key points from tonight's game:

Positive:
Donovan is great.
The Jazz lost.
A great halftime show.
Grizzles won.
Hawks won.
Bulls won.
Embracing the tank.

Negatives:
Actually watching the games.
 
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RobDMB: I am as big of a Jazz fan as you'll find, but this season it's getting rough to watch.
yamers: unpopular opinion: ingles got his big **** contract, set for life, doesn't give a **** anymore
Catchall: Jazz have lost 15 of their last 20 games. I'm not sure if the Jazz intend to tank, but they're tanking anyway.
RobDMB: At this point I watch just to see Donovan grow...
DownUnder: nah that's just a stupid opinion
str8line: It does seem weird that Ingles lost his groove for so long.
RobDMB: and give myself an ulcer...
Jazzta: we drafted arguably the best rookie in this class
Witty: ingles is a poor man's ginobili who works in limited minutes surrounded by people who can put the ball through the hoop
Jazzta: let's look ahead
DownUnder: cool
Jazzta: I just hope the FO is smart about Mitchell
DownUnder: when we get rid of ricky and derrick and Alec and JJ i'll be ecstatic that's what i look forward to
Jazzta: Dennis was bailed out big time here
str8line: Mitchell will be smart about Mitchell I think.
Jazzta: with Mitchell
oneye: The FO should give Mitchell a max deal today. He’s been the absolute only reason these games have attendance
str8line: This is really working our perfectly. We've been basically tanking since our November win streak.
Witty: can you imagine this season if we had drafted some scrub
Witty: at 23
Witty: or whatever it was
Jazzta: 13 I believe
Catchall: 24
Witty: we traded up
Ellipse: Of course, Mitchell will get a max. Worry about something else.
Catchall: Tyler Lydon
str8line: We'd be losing about like we are now.
Jazz4ever: Tyler Lydon
Jazzta: Oh yeah
str8line: But now we get a high draft pick to go with Don and Rudy.
Jazzta: The key is February we'll see
yamers: thatll be good
yamers: who do we get>
yamers: porter
oneye: I’ll worry about whatever the f*** I want
Catchall: Michael Porter Jr. would be amazing for the Jazz....unless he's going to be chronically injured.
Catchall: Jaren Jackson Jr. might work out. He and Gobert would give us stellar defense, and he can shoot out to 20+ feet consistently.
DownUnder: has to have 2 pt range
DownUnder: 3 pt
Jazzta: Favors for a gargoyle and a late 1st


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DownUnder: favors is now a filler
yamers: LMAO
yamers: a lot of people put joe ingles into their fan duel
yamers: and he was so bad that he destroeyd their entire line up
yamers: people are so angry at him
Jazzta: Perhaps you're right
Catchall: Hood is okay. Remember when Hayward was in his 4th year and had to create offense and force shots? That's where Hood is right now.
Catchall: Hayward's 3-pt percentage was down around 30% and he shot 45% overall
sojodave: If only we had a pg that would help Hood not create
Saint: The thing w/ Hood is that he doesnt seem to be forcced enough to try and expand his game
Saint: which is my only worth with him
Saint: he seems to be settlign far too often for stuff he has already shown to be good at
Saint: but are just inherently streaky types of plays
Catchall: I looked it up. In Hayward's 4th year, he averaged 16 pts and shot 30.4% from 3. I'm not saying Hood is as good as Hayward, but he's being pushed
Catchall: Hood is not a guy who is going to muscle his way to the rim.
oneye: Hood needs to shoot better, he’s not the biggest issue on this team
Catchall: He's a finesse guy and a pull-up shooter.
Catchall: I like that he's getting some floaters and bank shots from around 6 - 8 feet.
Catchall: That's new for him.
yamers: ehh whatever
Catchall: He's scoring a bit in the post
yamers: get a top draft pick
yamers: unload rubio
yamers: try sell ingles
yamers: truth is we're going to suck **** for another 4-5 yrs
oneye: I’ve defended Joe Ingles, and too much is being asked of him, but for $14 mill you better be giving the team more than that tonight
oneye: I could go out there and get 1 shot and an assist every night for that price
yamers: when guys like joe ingles get 14million on a heist job
yamers: this league is ****ed
yamers: headed for a lockout surely
Catchall: Ingles is mostly a spot-up shooter who can make a pass to a roll-man. He defends a bit too. But he's not a guy who should be playing 30+ minutes a nig
oneye: Or getting paid $14 million a year.


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Ingles needs to be our 6th man for us to get the best version of him (and the only version of him worth that contract). He can't handle this work load and anything over 24mins a night really hurts his efficiency and effectiveness.
 
Catchall: yeah, that's steep
oneye: That was a bad signing. I like the guy, but that really hurts cap space when he’s makimg that
Catchall: I think that was a buddies-with-Hayward thing
Sneakers: at least it goes down
Sneakers: i don't think its 14 per year each year right
Sneakers: i dont remmeber
oneye: Yeah to $1 million each year
oneye: thats far too much cap space for Ingles
oneye: It goes $14,$13,$12,$10 million. Horrible signing
Sneakers: i'm still not that chafed about that signing
Catchall: Ingles can pick and roll with Rudy though
yamers: disaster signing
yamers: ingles 14million
yamers: my ****
oneye: 10% of your cap space can’t be going to a guy like Joe if you actually want to compete
yamers: as ****** as ingles and rubio are
yamers: they still probably help us win like 2-3 extra games a year
yamers: even ****ing up the draft position
Catchall: Jazz got head-faked by Hayward into trading for Rubio and signing Ingles, but I think the Jazz still wanted both players.
yamers: take us from like top 3 to like 5
yamers: yeah i honestly think DL needs to stop listening to players/coaches and do what eh thinsk is best
yamers: cos he listened to corbin for the burke trade
yamers: and then thought hayward was staying
yamers: so he signed ingles and rubio
Catchall: The main problem with the Jazz right now is that they have very little offense from either forward spot
yamers: er traded for rubio
Catchall: If we had a PF putting up 15/8 or so, this would be a different team
yamers: and a beteter SF


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Sneakers: we'll have our best player on a rookie K for duration of ingles deal
yamers: ingles as ure starting SF is hilarious
Catchall: And then of course, Rubio going 0-6 with 5 TOs doesn't help either
Sneakers: so thats the good news
yamers: but itll help the tank
Sneakers: so its really not a crippling blow
Catchall: Right, and if Jerebko is your starting PF, you're not a playoff team
yamers: lmao
yamers: jerebko barely played last year
Sneakers: well jerebko was never supposed to be our starting pf
Catchall: Joe Johnson?
Catchall: Everyone feels like Favors is really a 5
yamers: Joe Johnson is done imo
yamers: he doesn't move on defense
yamers: everybody i saw johnson doing his down low pain routine
yamers: the ball is POKED out
yamers: eveerytime
Catchall: It's ultimately for the best that things turned out this way this year
Sneakers: favors was our starting pf that's a different issue of course


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Sneakers: ya this team was doomed to fali
Catchall: If our closing line-up was Rubio/Hood/Hayward/Johnson/Gobert, we're basically the same team as last year, except that Rubio can't shoot and Johnson
Catchall: is getting older
Catchall: So maybe the Jazz are a 4/5 seed this year. At most they win one round.
Catchall: But there's no real progress from last year.
yamers: i thik
yamers: this year and next year are possible stinkers
yamers: but yeh i think it sucks for no
yamers: now
yamers: but its for the best
Sneakers: wait no
Sneakers: you meant losing hayward is for the best?
Sneakers: we would have mitchell and hayward


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Catchall: We would have Mitchell and Hayward, yes, but we'd be relying on Rubio and Joe Johnson
Sneakers: no we would be relying on mitchell and hayward
Sneakers: favors woudl still be tradable
Catchall: So Mitchell/Hood/Hayward/Johnson/Gobert?
Catchall: or maybe Exum/Mitchell
oneye: Jazz need to begin turning this ship around. If DL makes no moves before the deadline I won’t understand it
Catchall: I'm not saying losing Hayward was a good thing.
Catchall: Once we lost him, we needed to circle back for more talent
Catchall: This season wasn't going to work no matter what we did really
Catchall: At least we didn't sign Gallinari


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oneye: I liked what Locke said about Hood the other day about trading Rodney Hood for Rodney Hood. I think Hood has plenty of talent, but he may
oneye: be irreparably broken until he gets a new start elsewhere
Catchall: I didn't hear that Locke take
Catchall: The Jazz will try to trade Favors, Burks, maybe Udoh looking for more picks
oneye: It was on 1280, and I thought it was the closest thing to truth of Hood I’ve seen
Catchall: He's saying what, that Hood needs a change of scenery?
oneye: He was asked to go to the line more, change his game a little, and had a bunch of pressure put on his shoulders
Catchall: Yeah, but that's a good thing
Catchall: He'll be better in a year or two as a result
oneye: hes saying the Hold we have now isn’t the Hood we had last year and he may have overadjused his head and mind
Catchall: I can agree with some of that.
Catchall: I think ideally Hood's role is like Dennis Scott at Orlando
oneye: Hood has talent, but I think a fresh start is what will give him a breath of fresh air
Catchall: He spots up and either strokes it or steps in and can make a play with a pass or a mid-range look.
Catchall: But he's really a release-valve shooter
oneye: I get what you’re saying, but is Hood too broken here now?
Catchall: He's not a shot creator
Catchall: No
oneye: Being booed at home is terrible on fans IMO
Catchall: No more than Hayward was in his 4th year when he was asked to do too much


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oneye: Even if the guy is struggling, it doesn’t look good from Mitchell’s perspective either IMO. Booing his teammate for missing shots?
oneye: way to keep a guy
oneye: Get mad at Hayward for leaving then boo your own guy cause he’s not hitting shots. Why would his teammates want to play for you either
Catchall: If the Jazz have Mitchell running the point (or Exum), Gobert rolling to the rim and a stretch shooter at the 4, that creates a framework
Catchall: for floor spacers like Ingles and Hood
Catchall: Are people booing Hood?
oneye: Yes Hood got booed at home tonight
Catchall: hm
oneye: way to look good to Mitchell fans, boo his teammate
oneye: Maybe Jazz fans do suck, Hood didn’t do anything but miss shots. Booing the guy is inexcusable
Catchall: Well, if Hood puts up 16 pts and shoots 39% from 3-pt on 5 attempts per game, he's doing his job
Catchall: Hood is streaky
Catchall: It's frustrating, probably for Hood too
oneye: Regardless, do people really think guys like Mitchell like to see their own fans boo a teammate. Ridiculous
Catchall: Maybe the expectations are too high for him right now.
Catchall: He's one of the few guys we have who can somewhat create a shot for himself. Everyone else needs to be set up


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Catchall: He's a bit like Mitchell. He needs to take a lot of shots simply because no one else can create looks for themselves.
Catchall: Taking off.
Catchall: Later gents


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