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Package Joe & Bogie …

Ferguson_Mellochill said:
If the Jazz are going to trade out Bogey, they'd better get back a bonafide 2-way player. A 6'8" wing who takes and makes big shots like Bogey does is highly valuable to the Jazz.
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Also big part of what makes Jazz a versatile offense. He busts zone and switches with shooting and posting up. Jazz don't really have anyone that can post up like Bogie. If he was gone Jazz would struggle a lot against different defensive schemes.
 
Even after a really slow start Bogey is having arguably the best season of his career right now. Efficiency wise he is having his second best shooting from the field season of his career, his best 3 point shooting season of his career and his best EFG% of his career. Best true shooting percentage of his career. And again, he had a very poor beginning to the season. He has been on fire for a while now to bring those averages up. He also never gets injured. He also is never afraid of the big moments and is tough.

I dont want to trade him as long as we are shooting for a championship. If we are starting over then whatever but as long as we are going for a title I want bogey on the team.
 
fishonjazz said:
Even after a really slow start Bogey is having arguably the best season of his career right now. Efficiency wise he is having his second best shooting from the field season of his career, his best 3 point shooting season of his career and his best EFG% of his career. Best true shooting percentage of his career. And again, he had a very poor beginning to the season. He has been on fire for a while now to bring those averages up. He also never gets injured. He also is never afraid of the big moments and is tough.

I dont want to trade him as long as we are shooting for a championship. If we are starting over then whatever but as long as we are going for a title I want bogey on the team.
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I feel like you boys don't understand the "Sell high, buy low" strategy.
 
Hearsky said:
I feel like you boys don't understand the "Sell high, buy low" strategy.
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I understand it. There is this other strategy of keeping and playing the guys who are playing the best and trying to win a championship though. The bulls should have traded MJ after his first nba championship. His stock was so freaking high at that point just imagine what they could have got for him.
 
fishonjazz said:
I understand it. There is this other strategy of keeping and playing the guys who are playing the best and trying to win a championship though. The bulls should have traded MJ after his first nba championship. His stock was so freaking high at that point just imagine what they could have got for him.
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You seriously comparing Bogey to MJ? lol. There's a reason bulls did not trade MJ when his value was high because they won a ****ing championship through him. So why won't they keep rolling with him? They won it again five times.
Did we win anything with Bogey? Have we not tried riding the same team last season? Where did that take us? Why should we try it again when it's already a proven failure?
 
jom2003 said:
You seriously comparing Bogey to MJ? lol. There's a reason bulls did not trade MJ when his value was high because they won a ****ing championship through him. So why won't they keep rolling with him? They won it again five times.
Did we win anything with Bogey? Have we not tried riding the same team last season? Where did that take us? Why should we try it again when it's already a proven failure?
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Ferguson_Mellochill said:
It may be worth seeing if we can keep them all heathy for the first time in 3 seasons.
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we are currently the league's healthiest team, period. and if guys were happy with the way we've been playing, there wouldn't be threads like this. there are some very specific issues with this team that's stopped them from going deep in the playoffs, and i can tell you it ain't staying healthy.
 
jom2003 said:
You seriously comparing Bogey to MJ? lol. There's a reason bulls did not trade MJ when his value was high because they won a ****ing championship through him. So why won't they keep rolling with him? They won it again five times.
Did we win anything with Bogey? Have we not tried riding the same team last season? Where did that take us? Why should we try it again when it's already a proven failure?
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Im comparing strategies silly. Not players. One strategy is to get rid of your players when they are playing their best (selling high). Another is to keep you players when they are playing their best and try to win a title. Btw, you say "did we win anything with bogey?" The answer to that question is obviously yes. We won last night in fact. Then you ask "have we not tried riding the same team last season? Where did that take us?" well it took us to the number 1 seed with a chance at a title. That is not a bad thing silly. We had some injures that had an effect on that opportunity. Then you ask "why should we try it again when its already a proven failure?" to which I have 2 responses to. First, it wasn't a proven failure as our team was not intact in the playoffs. Only thing proven was that our team wasn't good enough without the full compliment of players. We saw that with basically every playoff team besides the two healthiest ones, who just happened to make it to the finals. Second, we aren't trying it again. This team is not the same team from last year. Im surprised that you were unaware of our new acquisitions this year. Lastly, when you say "did we win anything with bogey"?, pretty much every team can say this about every player until they finally win a title. Bucks fans could have been saying that about brook lopez for example.
 
fishonjazz said:
Im comparing strategies silly. Not players. One strategy is to get rid of your players when they are playing their best (selling high). Another is to keep you players when they are playing their best and try to win a title. Btw, you say "did we win anything with bogey?" The answer to that question is obviously yes. We won last night in fact. Then you ask "have we not tried riding the same team last season? Where did that take us?" well it took us to the number 1 seed with a chance at a title. That is not a bad thing silly. We had some injures that had an effect on that opportunity. Then you ask "why should we try it again when its already a proven failure?" to which I have 2 responses to. First, it wasn't a proven failure as our team was not intact in the playoffs. Only thing proven was that our team wasn't good enough without the full compliment of players. We saw that with basically every playoff team besides the two healthiest ones, who just happened to make it to the finals. Second, we aren't trying it again. This team is not the same team from last year. Im surprised that you were unaware of our new acquisitions this year. Lastly, when you say "did we win anything with bogey"?, pretty much every team can say this about every player until they finally win a title. Bucks fans could have been saying that about brook lopez for example.
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See, bucks didn't win anything until they traded for Holiday. They could’ve rolled with Bledsoe until the wheels fall off but they didn't.
We are the same team from last two seasons in terms of our top six guys in the rotation. Saying that to change your seventh/eighth guy in the depth chart is going to make all the difference between second round exit and winning it all is delusional.
 
Even if we are healthy, when was the last team that couldn't guard a chair from the perimeter won a championship? Cuz that's where we are right now. Wouldn't be surprised at all if we let Brunson drop 40 on us tomorrow
 
jom2003 said:
Even if we are healthy, when was the last team that couldn't guard a chair from the perimeter won a championship? Cuz that's where we are right now. Wouldn't be surprised at all if we let Brunson drop 40 on us tomorrow
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I cant think of one. That doesn't really have anything to do with what is being discussed however.
See hearsky said that it seems like no one has ever heard of selling high. I was explaining that I have heard of that but just cause I have heard of it doesn't mean its the right thing to do. Simply trading a player, whatever player, based entirely off the fact that they are playing at their peak isn't really a good strategy. There are many factors that go into whether a player should be traded or not. The jazz might want to trade bogey right now because he is playing great so they think he would bring back the most value. However, the other GM's might look at how bogey is playing and see it as an anomaly and think he will come back down to his norm and therefore not give us good value in the trade. They might think that he is playing so well due to the jazz system and not want to give a lot of value in a trade.
On the other hand, Clarkson is playing poorly right now but if we offered him up in a trade maybe another team thinks they could get more out of him or his current poor play is the anomaly and he will get back to peak form and therefore might give good value for a player who is struggling.
My point was simple. You dont trade someone simply because they are playing their best. I also wouldn't say that you keep someone simply because they are playing their best. But I do think that typically when a player is performing at their best that is when most teams will want to keep that player if they are aspiring to win a championship in the short term.
 
fishonjazz said:
I cant think of one. That doesn't really have anything to do with what is being discussed however.
See hearsky said that it seems like no one has ever heard of selling high. I was explaining that I have heard of that but just cause I have heard of it doesn't mean its the right thing to do. Simply trading a player, whatever player, based entirely off the fact that they are playing at their peak isn't really a good strategy. There are many factors that go into whether a player should be traded or not. The jazz might want to trade bogey right now because he is playing great so they think he would bring back the most value. However, the other GM's might look at how bogey is playing and see it as an anomaly and think he will come back down to his norm and therefore not give us good value in the trade. They might think that he is playing so well due to the jazz system and not want to give a lot of value in a trade.
On the other hand, Clarkson is playing poorly right now but if we offered him up in a trade maybe another team thinks they could get more out of him or his current poor play is the anomaly and he will get back to peak form and therefore might give good value for a player who is struggling.
My point was simple. You dont trade someone simply because they are playing their best. I also wouldn't say that you keep someone simply because they are playing their best. But I do think that typically when a player is performing at their best that is when most teams will want to keep that player if they are aspiring to win a championship in the short term.
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Last time I saw something similar happened was when Celtics traded IT when he was coming off a 29ppg season and they sold high. And the GM who orchestrate that deal is now with us.
 
jom2003 said:
Last time I saw something similar happened was when Celtics traded IT when he was coming off a 29ppg season and they sold high. And the GM who orchestrate that deal is now with us.
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Oh I hope you weren't thinking that I have been saying that its always bad to trade high or that you should never trade high. I wasn't saying that, just in case you didn't know.
I would inquire to you if that celtics team was just coming off a season when they were the number seed though and if they had this incredibly small window of contention at that time (like the jazz do)
Maybe they thought it would be ok to get a little worse in the short term, since they weren't going to have a shot at title anyways, to get better in the long term. Maybe they saw some injury concerns with IT. Maybe they thought he could not sustain that peak and would go downhill soon. Maybe he didn't get along with teammates. I dont know why they made that trade as I wasn't running the celtics organization at that time.
I just dont think that teams are typically thinking "man, this guy is playing amazing right now. We should try to get rid of him." At least not teams in the running for a title. For every example that can be provided of a team selling high I can give 10 examples of teams keeping a player when they are peaking.
 
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