Perhaps this is the defining moment for Hayward

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This is quite hilarious...what exactly is Hayward's work ethic? If he truly is busting his butt in practice and/or in the offseason, why is it that we don't see any tangible improvements in his game? After 4 seasons in the league, he is bascially the same player he was as a rookie. Do players with a strong work ethic remain stagnant during their first several seasons in the league? Honest question.

Might be an honest question, but it's a stupid one.

Hayward has shown to be a hard worker. His body has obviously developed and he has gotten much better since his rookie year. He has improved every year, you are dumb if you can't see it. Sorry, honest assessment on your intelligence.

You're right though, that guy who was barely even recruited out of HS and became a lottery pick in 2 years of college has no work ethic.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Here's my take. If Hayward needs this to motivate him after the ****show of a season he had last year, I pray DL trades him come December to any team with lots of money clamoring for him. Which is nobody but a man can wish, can't he?

IMO, he stunk it up last year and was still invited to tryout for FIBA which means he probably thinks he's much better than he actually is and that it was all Ty's fault and the players around him and so, he won't do everything in his power this off-season to take his game to a level it's never been, which means we'll just have the same 3rd/4th option type guy on our team for four more years.

What?

 

[My2Cents]

This is quite hilarious...what exactly is Hayward's work ethic? If he truly is busting his butt in practice and/or in the offseason, why is it that we don't see any tangible improvements in his game? After 4 seasons in the league, he is bascially the same player he was as a rookie. Do players with a strong work ethic remain stagnant during their first several seasons in the league? Honest question.

Reading is fundamental. I didn't say he had strong work ethic. I said it is what I expect from him as a max player. I don't spend time around him. i don't know any more about his work ethic than you do. In any case, except for shooting he has improved in every statistical category since his rookie year, including rebounds, assists, and steals. That suggests a strong work ethic to me so I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

What?

What is your issue with what I said?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

What is your issue with what I said?

The huge run on sentence that is the 2nd paragraph and the thought that Hayward had that bad of a season. He didn't have a great year, but it wasn't a "****show".

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

The huge run on sentence that is the 2nd paragraph and the thought that Hayward had that bad of a season. He didn't have a great year, but it wasn't a "****show".

It's a sentence.

Slight hyperbole but he pretty much stunk.

The point still stands.

 

[gregbroncs]

Might be an honest question, but it's a stupid one.

Hayward has shown to be a hard worker. His body has obviously developed and he has gotten much better since his rookie year. He has improved every year, you are dumb if you can't see it. Sorry, honest assessment on your intelligence.

You're right though, that guy who was barely even recruited out of HS and became a lottery pick in 2 years of college has no work ethic.

Last year was NOT an improvement for Hayward over the preceding year. His FG% has dropped every year he's been in the league. Sounds a lot like another guy who used to play for the Jazz.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Last year was NOT an improvement for Hayward over the preceding year. His FG% has dropped every year he's been in the league. Sounds a lot like another guy who used to play for the Jazz.

His role changed and the team got worse. He isn't suppose to be a 1st option. Yes, his shooting got worse, but he got better at everything else. He was definitely better than the previous year.

 

[Shocker00]

Might be an honest question, but it's a stupid one.

Hayward has shown to be a hard worker. His body has obviously developed and he has gotten much better since his rookie year. He has improved every year, you are dumb if you can't see it. Sorry, honest assessment on your intelligence.

You're right though, that guy who was barely even recruited out of HS and became a lottery pick in 2 years of college has no work ethic.

I don't see the improvement each year like you do, actually I see quite the opposite and the stats would back that up.

10'-11' Fg% 48.5 3pt% 47.3 Ft% 71.1 To 1.0
11'-12' Fg% 45.6 3pt% 34.6 Ft% 83.2 To 1.7
12'-13' Fg% 43.5 3pt% 41.5 Ft% 82.7 To 1.7
13'-14' Fg% 41.3 3pt% 30.4 Ft% 81.6. To 2.8

His assist was up last year from 3 APG to 5 APG but he played 7 MPG more and he had the ball in his hands a lot more because we had a Rookie PG and a couple terrible backup PG'S. Hayward would run the offense more than previous years. This could explain why his assists were higher last year.

His rebounds was up last year from 3 RPG to 5 RPG partly because he was getting beat on defensive end putting him in better position for a rebound. Of course this is just my opinion.

Just a few years ago he showed a lot of promise on defense defending Kobe and a few other good player pretty well. Last year he struggled against the better players and got beat often.

Hayward's Fg% decreased every year he has been in the league.
Hayward's Ft% has decreased the last 3 years
Hayward's 3pt Fg% excluding his rookie year is 35.3 (Burks excluding his rookie year is 35.3. Hayward's numbers consist of 3 yrs where Burks only consist of 2 years.)
Hayward's turnovers has got worse over the last four years.

This does not show me a player that has improved every year like you indicated.














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[yamers]

brickward

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I don't see the improvement each year like you do, actually I see quite the opposite and the stats would back that up.

10'-11' Fg% 48.5 3pt% 47.3 Ft% 71.1 To 1.0
11'-12' Fg% 45.6 3pt% 34.6 Ft% 83.2 To 1.7
12'-13' Fg% 43.5 3pt% 41.5 Ft% 82.7 To 1.7
13'-14' Fg% 41.3 3pt% 30.4 Ft% 81.6. To 2.8

His assist was up last year from 3 APG to 5 APG but he played 7 MPG more and he had the ball in his hands a lot more because we had a Rookie PG and a couple terrible backup PG'S. Hayward would run the offense more than previous years. This could explain why his assists were higher last year.

His rebounds was up last year from 3 RPG to 5 RPG partly because he was getting beat on defensive end putting him in better position for a rebound. Of course this is just my opinion.

Just a few years ago he showed a lot of promise on defense defending Kobe and a few other good player pretty well. Last year he struggled against the better players and got beat often.

Hayward's Fg% decreased every year he has been in the league.
Hayward's Ft% has decreased the last 3 years
Hayward's 3pt Fg% excluding his rookie year is 35.3 (Burks excluding his rookie year is 35.3. Hayward's numbers consist of 3 yrs where Burks only consist of 2 years.)
Hayward's turnovers has got worse over the last four years.

This does not show me a player that has improved every year like you indicated.














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I watch games.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Not saying Hayward improved immensely, but he was clearly a better player, he was just playing a harder role and one that he doesn't really fit him.

 

[akirac73]

I watch games.

Are you watching JAZZ games?

 

[akirac73]

I don't see the improvement each year like you do, actually I see quite the opposite and the stats would back that up.

10'-11' Fg% 48.5 3pt% 47.3 Ft% 71.1 To 1.0
11'-12' Fg% 45.6 3pt% 34.6 Ft% 83.2 To 1.7
12'-13' Fg% 43.5 3pt% 41.5 Ft% 82.7 To 1.7
13'-14' Fg% 41.3 3pt% 30.4 Ft% 81.6. To 2.8

His assist was up last year from 3 APG to 5 APG but he played 7 MPG more and he had the ball in his hands a lot more because we had a Rookie PG and a couple terrible backup PG'S. Hayward would run the offense more than previous years. This could explain why his assists were higher last year.

His rebounds was up last year from 3 RPG to 5 RPG partly because he was getting beat on defensive end putting him in better position for a rebound. Of course this is just my opinion.

Just a few years ago he showed a lot of promise on defense defending Kobe and a few other good player pretty well. Last year he struggled against the better players and got beat often.

Hayward's Fg% decreased every year he has been in the league.
Hayward's Ft% has decreased the last 3 years
Hayward's 3pt Fg% excluding his rookie year is 35.3 (Burks excluding his rookie year is 35.3. Hayward's numbers consist of 3 yrs where Burks only consist of 2 years.)
Hayward's turnovers has got worse over the last four years.

This does not show me a player that has improved every year like you indicated.

Good post. Some people just can't handle the truth...

 

[MDAV28]

I don't see the improvement each year like you do, actually I see quite the opposite and the stats would back that up.

10'-11' Fg% 48.5 3pt% 47.3 Ft% 71.1 To 1.0
11'-12' Fg% 45.6 3pt% 34.6 Ft% 83.2 To 1.7
12'-13' Fg% 43.5 3pt% 41.5 Ft% 82.7 To 1.7
13'-14' Fg% 41.3 3pt% 30.4 Ft% 81.6. To 2.8

His assist was up last year from 3 APG to 5 APG but he played 7 MPG more and he had the ball in his hands a lot more because we had a Rookie PG and a couple terrible backup PG'S. Hayward would run the offense more than previous years. This could explain why his assists were higher last year.

His rebounds was up last year from 3 RPG to 5 RPG partly because he was getting beat on defensive end putting him in better position for a rebound. Of course this is just my opinion.

Just a few years ago he showed a lot of promise on defense defending Kobe and a few other good player pretty well. Last year he struggled against the better players and got beat often.

Hayward's Fg% decreased every year he has been in the league.
Hayward's Ft% has decreased the last 3 years
Hayward's 3pt Fg% excluding his rookie year is 35.3 (Burks excluding his rookie year is 35.3. Hayward's numbers consist of 3 yrs where Burks only consist of 2 years.)
Hayward's turnovers has got worse over the last four years.

This does not show me a player that has improved every year like you indicated.














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Hey you're right it's clear to see Hayward's shooting percentages have gone down but I'll counter with some stats as well.

For one, only 4 players 6'7+ had assist rates over 22%. Lebron, Durant, Noah, and Hayward. Sure that's picking a stat that suits him, but fact remains he's a 6'8 SG/SF that has a great assist rate. His assist rate went from 10.2% to 15.9% to 16.7% to 24.1%. Not only is that improvement, that is extreme improvement. Hayward did run the offense more and he proved he was capable which is rare for his size and position.

Also Hayward's rebounding rate his first 3 seasons were a consistent 6.6% until last season in which it was 8.0%. Defensive rebounding in particular jumped 4.2%. Still could improve but point is he did improve.

Also as far as turnovers, sure the number has gone up through the seasons, but his turnover rate is less than his rookie season.
2010-2011: 17.3%
2011-2012: 13.7%
2012-2013: 11.7%
2013-2014: 15.0%

If you're gonna attribute more assists to more minutes, treat turnovers the same way.
There's about 26 players that had assist rate above 24% and a turnover rate under 16%

 

[akirac73]

Hey you're right it's clear to see Hayward's shooting percentages have gone down but I'll counter with some stats as well.

For one, only 4 players 6'7+ had assist rates over 22%. Lebron, Durant, Noah, and Hayward. Sure that's picking a stat that suits him, but fact remains he's a 6'8 SG/SF that has a great assist rate. His assist rate went from 10.2% to 15.9% to 16.7% to 24.1%. Not only is that improvement, that is extreme improvement. Hayward did run the offense more and he proved he was capable which is rare for his size and position.

Also Hayward's rebounding rate his first 3 seasons were a consistent 6.6% until last season in which it was 8.0%. Defensive rebounding in particular jumped 4.2%. Still could improve but point is he did improve.

Also as far as turnovers, sure the number has gone up through the seasons, but his turnover rate is less than his rookie season.
2010-2011: 17.3%
2011-2012: 13.7%
2012-2013: 11.7%
2013-2014: 15.0%

If you're gonna attribute more assists to more minutes, treat turnovers the same way.
There's about 26 players that had assist rate above 24% and a turnover rate under 16%

Hayward's 24% assist rate almost matches his 3 point shooting percentage...that must put him in elite company.

 

[Deleted member 848]

People are still bitching about Hayward's contract?


Legit LMFAO at the thought of Hayward not improving over the last four seasons.

 

[Shocker00]

Hey you're right it's clear to see Hayward's shooting percentages have gone down but I'll counter with some stats as well.

For one, only 4 players 6'7+ had assist rates over 22%. Lebron, Durant, Noah, and Hayward. Sure that's picking a stat that suits him, but fact remains he's a 6'8 SG/SF that has a great assist rate. His assist rate went from 10.2% to 15.9% to 16.7% to 24.1%. Not only is that improvement, that is extreme improvement. Hayward did run the offense more and he proved he was capable which is rare for his size and position.

Also Hayward's rebounding rate his first 3 seasons were a consistent 6.6% until last season in which it was 8.0%. Defensive rebounding in particular jumped 4.2%. Still could improve but point is he did improve.

Also as far as turnovers, sure the number has gone up through the seasons, but his turnover rate is less than his rookie season.
2010-2011: 17.3%
2011-2012: 13.7%
2012-2013: 11.7%
2013-2014: 15.0%

If you're gonna attribute more assists to more minutes, treat turnovers the same way.
There's about 26 players that had assist rate above 24% and a turnover rate under 16%

Lebron and Durant have elite abilities that Hayward don't have and they deserve to have the ball in their hands, Hayward on the other hand when playing point forward is just taking positions away from the point guard. Hayward APG last year went up 2 per game mainly because he played a lot of point forward, you don't think Trey Burke would have gotten those two assist per game if the ball was in his hands instead? Who has a better turnover to assist ratio Burke or Hayward. Point guards need to run the offense and wings need to hit their outside shots. That's all we need is Hayward as our point guard, think I would rather develope Burke and Exum at running the plays and have the wings do what they are suppose to do and make shots.


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[MDAV28]

Lebron and Durant have elite abilities that Hayward don't have and they deserve to have the ball in their hands, Hayward on the other hand when playing point forward is just taking positions away from the point guard. Hayward APG last year went up 2 per game mainly because he played a lot of point forward, you don't think Trey Burke would have gotten those two assist per game if the ball was in his hands instead? Who has a better turnover to assist ratio Burke or Hayward. Point guards need to run the offense and wings need to hit their outside shots. That's all we need is Hayward as our point guard, think I would rather develope Burke and Exum at running the plays and have the wings do what they are suppose to do and make shots.


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This is just the definition of Hayward hate right here. Anybody who can't see that it benefits the team to have somebody of Hayward's size create for his team is just ignorant. Discrediting Hayward's playmaking ability because "Trey can just do it" is just stupid. That's like saying Millsap shouldn't be shooting 3's because he is just taking them away from Korver.

Actually on that note, sounds like we should just trade Hayward straight up for Korver right? He's a wing that does "what they are suppose to do and make shots."

 

[Shocker00]

This is just the definition of Hayward hate right here. Anybody who can't see that it benefits the team to have somebody of Hayward's size create for his team is just ignorant. Discrediting Hayward's playmaking ability because "Trey can just do it" is just stupid. That's like saying Millsap shouldn't be shooting 3's because he is just taking them away from Korver.

Actually on that note, sounds like we should just trade Hayward straight up for Korver right? He's a wing that does "what they are suppose to do and make shots."

Being a big (like Lebron and Durant) and creating for his team is excellent for a secondary skill. By your logic we could use Burke, Exum, and Hayward as our backcourt at the same time and we would have all types of creating ability, the problem is we have no one that can shoot from 3pt range. A wing needs to be able to shoot first and create second, a PG is someone who creates first and secondary skill is to shoot. Who is going to create spacing? If Hayward is a good PG then play him at PG and get a wing in the game that can make a corner 3 and then if he can create that's a bonus. It's nothing to do with Hayward hate and has more to do with logic.

Players 3 pt%:

Favors. 0%
Kanter. 0%
Hayward 30%
Burks. 35%
Burkes. 33%

We need players on the floor that can make 3 pt shots. The most important skill for Hayward to have has gotten worse each year. If we had outside shooters then you would see Favors and Kanters improve on the inside, you would see more assist by the PG and he could actually start trusting his teammates to make the shot and be more willing to make the pass, and then you would see more wins.


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