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You have taken language to indicate that rape is not about a woman making a man horny, and used it to say there is no sexual component to rape.

If you think punching a guy in the nuts is an act of rape, I would agree this is as well by that standard. Blake did the equivalent of punching someone in the groin.
So you are saying this part is fully contingent on whether the man was horny or not?

Rape and sexual assault are crimes of violence and control that stem from a person’s determination to exercise power over another.

I never said there is no sexual component to rape, you assumed that. But you did state that sexual gratification needs to be the point if it for it to be considered rape, and that just isn't true.
 
I agree that being married to someone, or not, does not affect if an act of rape. I referred to his being married in response to the notion of "predator". The connotation of predator is one who is seeking out addition prey. To my knowledge, Blake has not.

None of that is a defense of any sort for his actions, just an analysis of the type of threat he is.
It isn't required for a predator to have multiple prey to still be a predator and act in a predatory manner, even if it is just to one person.
 
There's only one man that is truly fanning the flames of dissent and stands to benefit the most from it. Particularly when he or Fox can pin it on Blue states. According to new polls Trump is making up ground on Biden and all you people that advocate violence and destruction as retribution are making it happen. This is the wrong conversation for the times we live in. Black Lives Matter we have heard and received your message. If need be to quell the unrest, perhaps we need to go backwards to a more segregated approach to law enforcement where white officers patrol predominantly white neighborhoods and black officers patrol black neighborhoods. To be honest, no police officers want to be assigned to black neighborhoods at this time in history, it's a death sentence or worse. But inaction by law enforcement to quell unrest in cities like Portland, Chicago and Atlanta and the Federal response is making Trump look like a hero to his base.

Four years after Obama with prominent African Americans in every arena of modern life from business to entertainment to sports to news dissemination and with scads of government programs to assist them Black is not the color we need to be focusing on. Not now. It's Green. Social injustice is everywhere not just in the Black communities. Life has never been fair, whoever said it was doesn't know what they're talking about. But is it really justice we are seeking and if so what exactly does that look like at this point in history? Is it really Justice or is it Just Us.

You want to know what real oppression looks like? Look at displaced refugees in Europe, Africa, South and Central America. It's happening and $$Trump couldn't care less as long as it's got $ signs attached for he and his cronies. You die hard proponents of social change at any cost need to sit down and reevaluate your agenda IMO.
 
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Does anyone else have any brilliant solutions? I have heard a lot more witch hunt banter about who is racist and who is not. Surely with the amount of intelligent people here we can come up with more tangible, objective targets to move the ball than Cy and Lopo calling each other racist or not (not helping fellas). There are plenty of people who want change but need more direction.

I don't have the right perspective, nor training, to figure out workable solutions.
 
Yes I am seriously saying her boyfriend should be charged with her murder because he is the sole person who caused it to happen. Absolutely.

Does that apply to anyone who has someone break into their home, or only the ones who are unlikely enough to not know it's the police breaking in?
 
There's only one man that is truly fanning the flames of dissent and stands to benefit the most from it. Particularly when he or Fox can pin it on Blue states. According to new polls Trump is making up ground on Biden and all you people that advocate violence and destruction as retribution are making it happen. This is the wrong conversation for the times we live in. Black Lives Matter we have heard and received your message. If need be to quell the unrest, perhaps we need to go backwards to a more segregated approach to law enforcement where white officers patrol predominantly white neighborhoods and black officers patrol black neighborhoods. To be honest, no police officers want to be assigned to black neighborhoods at this time in history, it's a death sentence or worse. But inaction by law enforcement to quell unrest in cities like Portland, Chicago and Atlanta and the Federal response is making Trump look like a hero to his base.

Four years after Obama with prominent African Americans in every arena of modern life from business to entertainment to sports to news dissemination and with scads of government programs to assist them Black is not the color we need to be focusing on. Not now. It's Green. Social injustice is everywhere not just in the Black communities. Life has never been fair, whoever said it was doesn't know what they're talking about. But is it really justice we are seeking and if so what exactly does that look like at this point in history? Is it really Justice or is it Just Us.

You want to know what real oppression looks like? Look at displaced refugees in Europe, Africa, South and Central America. It's happening and $$Trump couldn't care less as long as it's got $ signs attached for he and his cronies. You die hard proponents of social change at any cost need to sit down and reevaluate your agenda IMO.

I made it as far as your straw man in the 3rd sentence.
 
So you are saying this part is fully contingent on whether the man was horny or not?

I'm saying there is to be more to rape than genital contact from a hand, yes.

Rape and sexual assault are crimes of violence and control that stem from a person’s determination to exercise power over another.

Agreed, but that doesn't make them identical.

I never said there is no sexual component to rape, you assumed that. But you did state that sexual gratification needs to be the point if it for it to be considered rape, and that just isn't true.

Did I? If so, then I did go too far. For a crime to be rape, the rapist needs to be be getting some sort of gratification from it, but that doesn't make it the primary point or feature in all cases.
 
It isn't required for a predator to have multiple prey to still be a predator and act in a predatory manner, even if it is just to one person.

The connotation of predator is one who seeks prey. When it was used to describe Blake, it was to portary the police as protecting the community from someone who was a general threat. To my understand, Blake was leaving the home of his victim, and was not a general threat when he was shot.

I'd agree to abuser, bully, piece of dung, and many other descriptions about Blake. I still dispute that using "predator" to help justify the shooting is wrong.
 
I'm saying there is to be more to rape than genital contact from a hand, yes.



Agreed, but that doesn't make them identical.



Did I? If so, then I did go too far. For a crime to be rape, the rapist needs to be be getting some sort of gratification from it, but that doesn't make it the primary point or feature in all cases.
Fair enough. I'm sure you probably didn't intend it that way but it read that way to me.
 
The connotation of predator is one who seeks prey. When it was used to describe Blake, it was to portary the police as protecting the community from someone who was a general threat. To my understand, Blake was leaving the home of his victim, and was not a general threat when he was shot.

I'd agree to abuser, bully, piece of dung, and many other descriptions about Blake. I still dispute that using "predator" to help justify the shooting is wrong.
Fair enough in that context. It just came across your were asserting that a predator must have multiple prey to be considered such, but the definition of sexual predator is more about predatory behavior than number of victims.
 

No one said it makes it a perfect situation but imagine the alternative. If the guy hadn't complied it is far more likely they would have just shot him outright. Still unacceptable but definitely better than the alternative.
 
I'm afraid it's going to take more than money to change things for the Black community. W. Kamau Bell brought up a good case for restitution for slavery in an episode of United Shades of America on CNN (excellent program by the way) a week or two back. It wouldn't be the first time. The most interesting aspect to me was that immediately after the Civil War, restitution was paid to the former Slave Owners that had given up their slaves. A prominent academic economist argued that American Capitalism was built on the backs of slavery. It was a compelling argument, but haven't we done enough already with government programs? More on that later. Still, I'm not sure that restitution payment would solve anything. Your question haven't we done enough is just crazy. Yes I guess the few government programs that have benefited blacks should make up for all the "misfortune" they have endured. You know like taking them away from their homes, putting them on ships chained together under horrible conditions, bringing them to America to be sold like horses and separating from their families, then sending them to plantations to work in unbearable conditions while beating, killing and raping their woman. Not allowing them any education and then when they were "freed" installing Jim Crow laws, black codes, sharecropping and continuous lynchings and murders. Blowing up and burning churches which killed 4 young black girls attending church. Killing many people and leaders i.e. MLK during the Civil Rights movement, beating young black people for sitting at a lunch counter, having black entrances to events, train stations, hotels bathrooms etc. Practicing discrimination in hiring and financial loans and housing funding. Burning down Tulsa Oklahoma businesses and murdering hundreds of blacks because they were getting too successful. Lynching a kid because he looked at a white girl. It is continues today with the many acts of police brutality. Shooting a guy seven times in the back,I could go on and on. The response from white american: Why didn't he comply? White Americans always side with the police when a black person is shot. The white media starts to attack his character so they can justify something that should never be justified? So the answer to your crazy question (one most white people believe), IS A RESOUNDING NO!!! I have heard many white people say why can' t they just get over. Well maybe because we never allow them to because we continue to murder, lynch and put obstacles in the way to prevent them from "getting over it".

When are people going to realize that racism is a two-way street? Can anybody even begin to imagine the vitriolic reaction to an organization called "White Lives Matter". Even to bring it up in polite conversation runs the risk of being labeled a White Supremacist. But we embrace an organization that focuses entirely on injustice towards African Americans, hell corporations even support it with cash contributions. I mean where were they when attention was shone on the inhumane treatment and dozens of lives lost at border detention centers? Then there's the NAACP and the United Negro College Fund, you name it. How many have sent a donation to the UNCF and then realized that thanks to affirmative action programs, admission standards are already much lower for minorities with greater scholarship opportunities, I mean where does White Guilt end? Maybe it ends where Black Accountability begins. It is true that racism occurs in many races but we are talking about America. While it is also true any race can be racist but in America only white people have been able to institutionalize it. I find it revealing when people like yourself want Equality when black people create groups identified as black. That seems like the only time white people are concerned about Equality when it affects them. Do not blame black people. Perhaps if we as a nation from the start actually believed in Equality and practiced it. Then we would have a different culture and country. I cannot speak for the black community, but as an observer the reason might be why we have Black History Month is because White Historians excluded them out of our country's history. Why there is BLM and why ALL Lives Matter or White Lives Matter are considered offensive to the black community is because white people are trying to muck up the message of Black people being shot by cops at a higher rate than anyone else. What is revealing is when white people scream ALL LIVES MATTER OR BLUE LIVES MATTER it shows insecurity. Hey what about us, pay attention to us? White people cannot let blacks protest how they are unfairly perceived, brutalized and killed because it takes away from their reality of what they think America is. They don't want to hear how they had advantages not shared by all. That would hurt their egos. Like finding out your mother let you win in cards/checkers. Again, white people want EQUALITY when they perceive black people are getting something they aren't. Cannot have blacks fight for their rights. Only white people can do that, this is the way a lot of white people think.

What is it about Black Culture in this country? Why is it that the highest percentage of single parent households in this Country is Black. Why is it that the highest percentage of deadbeat dads is Black. Why is it that the majority of homicides committed in this Country continue to be Black perps/Black victims even though Blacks represent only 13.4% of the population? Why is it that one white police officer killing or injuring a black perpetrator leads to weeks and sometimes months of protests, destruction of property and looting and yet the response to a gang related drive by shooting is only a phone call to law enforcement? Of course, then this cycle of violence in the Black community is then blamed on White America. The evil white man archetype pervades all, it's omnipresent in the Black community from the Church pulpit to the rhymes of popular rappers. Race-baiting is everywhere it seems. You sound like a douche-bag with this comment. (not saying you are) White people like you always go for the Blacks are more prone to violence and then you start cherry picking crime data to support ******** statements you just made. You are simplifying very complex issues in simple terms. There are many reasons for black crime, poverty, police brutality, drug abuse, racism etc. This is a white man argument when trying to rationalize away racism. Whites always want to talk about black crime. Never about white crime, like most of school shootings are done by whites, the mass majority of serial killers are white, and white males are more likely to murder their families than any other social group. Denying that White American doesn't have anything to do with black crime is white denial at its highest level. Black people share the blame but a lot of it has to do with the mistreatment of blacks economically for centuries. While slaves worked in the fields, Cotton was king and helped America become a world economic power. After WWII, blacks were denied financial opportunities through financial loans and housing discrimination, blacks have been paid historically lower wages for the same job, they were/are excluded from professions and business networks of America corporations. So there is a lot of blame for the poverty of blacks. Whites just smile and say they are lazy or thugs. When layoffs happen blacks were the first to go. So your statements are just more examples how whites rationalize away the damage of slavery, segregation, and racism.

So who do we turn to in this time of need? I watched an extensive interview after the Blake shooting on CNN with none other than Charles Barkley. Chuck argued that the problem in this Country is one of segregation. He said White America has such little direct contact with Blacks, Hispanics and Muslims that they only respond to them through the stereotypes depicted in movies and the media. I don't know, I'm middle class and I live in a culdesac that's 50% Black, 40% White (less than that, my wife is first generation emigrant Hispanic) and 10% Asian. I work in a school that is 40% Black and 30% Hispanic. I look around and increasingly see mixed marriages and mixed progeny. Spent some vacation time in Brian Head and was encouraged to see a few locals in Deliverance Country in mixed (black white) marriages. Who says things haven't improved? And Native Americans, they're the best, they don't know what category they fall into so they're nice to everyone. (Not that way coming up in SLC in the 60's and 70's though; remember a couple of run ins with N.A.s off the reservation. But shouldn't the original inhabitants have a bigger chip than even descendants of American Slaves after our campaigns of genocide and sterilization? My wife brought up this argument regarding the atrocities of the Conquistadors in South America and the lack of enmity today.) It is not a freaking competition, there is plenty of discrimination throughout American history to go around. You don't see any of those groups being shot by police in the way blacks are. In your discussion you seem to be annoyed about all the talk and protesting without realize this isn't an overnight thing. This has been going on for 400 years, so blacks are not having a bad hair day. They are just fed up about it.

Then I listened to Kenny the Jet float his more appropriate theory of systemic racism. He says his thing is to ask any multiracial room how many have had a gun pointed at them. In his view, it's generally Black folks that have and generally a police officer pointing the gun. I don't question that although I'm white and I was almost blown away by police officers after sticking my head out a window of a car to ask a question while stopped by police. I had two guns drawn on me and when it was all said and done we were able to drive home with no charges levied and no idea why we (two white boys) were pulled over. But I don't doubt that the incidence of that type of thing happens more frequently in the Black Community. But is that because of systemic racism or because of racial profiling? Or are they one and the same? I don't believe they are. All I know is that I would never consider wrestling an armed police officer to the ground. Respect and compliance to Law Enforcement, not disrespect and defiance that's my way and I've had a pretty good run so far. You are white so that is why you have had a pretty good run. Not complying isn't a reason to shoot a defenseless person in the back 7 times or stand on a persons necks for 8 minutes. Yet white america tries to use this excuse and others to justify it. There have been studies showing that white people are more prone to not complying and still do not get shot as much. This is systemic racism and racial profiling is a part of it.

My how things have changed. Watched a documentary called Yusef Hawkins, Storm over Brooklyn last night. Another reminder of how much race relations have improved in this Country. I mean it was dangerous to be caught in the wrong neighborhood after dark in NYC in the 80s. Reverend Al Sharpton led the fight in that one though he may have gotten a little help from Louis Farrakhan and others. I gotta say that I was damn impressed with Sharpton and his tactics. I had heard some rather disparaging stories about him but from what I can see, he was and continues to be, a man of principle. He got members of the Black community to march repeatedly through predominantly white (Italian American) Bensonhurst where Hawkins was murdered. There was no destruction of property though they were verbally and physically assaulted by local residents and police. Thanks to Sharpton and the movement he spearheaded, the community was forced to give up the gunman who was convicted. But more importantly, the negative publicity led to more open race relations between the burroughs. I will have to watch this one. Sounds good.

So I guess what I'm saying is "why can't we be more homogeneous as United States Citizens? Why can't we look back and see all the positive change that has taken place in this respect? I remember reading several years ago, a Cultural Anthropologist saying that the racial heritage of American Blacks is 30% White. And that was before the recent explosion of mixed marriages and or mixed progeny. Why is it still a Black/White debate when the real story has always been haves and have nots. At the end of the day after the two day walkout, the athletes will still be haves and their communities predominantly have nots. I look at what Andre Agassi has done in Las Vegas and what Tim Duncan has done in San Antonio, now that's commitment, not just some random empty gesture. In the end, we'll never be able to coexist if we can't get on the same page regarding values, trust and culture and that only happens through dedication and commitment I believe. Well ask that to the police and white militia people and all the Karens of the world who call the police because a black person is watching birds, or sleeping on a couch or selling lemonade. White people are the ones who are the ones who call people the N word and call blacks monkeys etc. All black people want is to be treated as anyone else and not be shot or beaten up by police. They want to live a normal live with friends and family and not in fear of being lynched, beaten, discriminated or shot. I am sure that blacks would like to just be able to exhale and relax. Unfortunately, they cannot. Even though things have improved, doesn't mean where we are today came easy. You should visit Black History Museum in Washington D.C or go to the website about the history of lynching in America and this might give you a better understanding of why blacks feel the way they do. The have and have nots is a black issue but also a country issue. Another day for that discussion. I want to be clear that when I same white people, I do not mean all white people are this way.
 
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So you guys have fun with this, I've got more important things to do. You think I'm playing about this playing into Trump's hands with all the civil unrest? You guys should take a break from your keyboard at least once a day to check out the news. And maybe take the time to dig a little deeper when wildfires are burning out of control in the Amazon Rain Forest. I know when your whole life is social media and virtual reality, living on government and family support you tend to lose sight of reality!
 
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