Players Union Bargining Power

[GoJazz]

So in any good negociation both sides need to have bargining power. As I see it now the players have very little if any power. The owners obviously know that many if not most of the players do no have the financial staying power to sit out a full season. This puts the players at a significant disadvantage compaired to the deeper pockets of the owners. If i were the players union i would encourage the players to seek employment elsewhere (Europe, China, South America) as this would signifcantly reduce the owners ability to cause pain to the players wallets. It would also increase the statue of these players internationally which in turn would make them more money in the long run as well. In a lot of ways I think DWill may be one of the smartest players out there in that he realized they were not going to get anywhere with these talks and decided to go get his money in the open markets outside the US.

 

[Qman]

So in any good negociation both sides need to have bargining power. As I see it now the players have very little if any power. The owners obviously know that many if not most of the players do no have the financial staying power to sit out a full season. This puts the players at a significant disadvantage compaired to the deeper pockets of the owners. If i were the players union i would encourage the players to seek employment elsewhere (Europe, China, South America) as this would signifcantly reduce the owners ability to cause pain to the players wallets. It would also increase the statue of these players internationally which in turn would make them more money in the long run as well. In a lot of ways I think DWill may be one of the smartest players out there in that he realized they were not going to get anywhere with these talks and decided to go get his money in the open markets outside the US.

They have already sought out most of the available pro basketball opportunities in other countries. Unfortunately from the players perspective, there are about 480 NBA players. There are less than 50 high paying (but still less than an NBA contract in most cases) jobs in the foreign leagues. So unless the players use their capital to create a new league and find a network to televise games, this will end if the players caving. They just can't hold out for 1 or 2 seasons that owners appear to be ready to sacrifice.

 

[DutchJazzer]

screw the players aint aint about indvudials it's about TEAM.
yet all I see is greedy individuals wanting whats theirs teams be damned.
low tier mid level guys be damned

 

[NUMBERICA]

If they just shut up and cave, then they have even less leverage moving forward.

I'm not saying anything about the lockout as it is, just basic negotiating principles.

 

[NotDeadYet]

If most teams really are losing money, they have little motivation to have a season until the source of the problem is fixed. I have to side with the owners on this hard cap concept which is hanging up the players union. Of course he who has the biggest wallet isn't guaranteed to win the most, but it sure gives them a heck of an advantage over smaller market teams. The NFL's hard cap is working; teams that rise to the top one year are frequently overtaken the following year by teams who the year before appeared no where near "elite". This "levelling of the playing field" appears to be what NBA owners want to see happen, which would be a good thing for the NBA.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/700187558/NBA-salary-cap-is-biggest-hurdle.html?pg=1

 

[NUMBERICA]

When comparing the NFL to the NBA, people are quick to forget that the two sports are not the same.

And some people don't buy that the league is in financial trouble.

 

[margodydek]

Many people have said that the players' leverage lies in the fact that they are THE "product", which is much different than employees in other professions. While that is true to a point, I think the true product is the games they play. I'm sure plenty of people would like to watch a pickup game between some of the best NBA players, but it's not something the masses would clamor to watch. With these pickup games there is zero relevance to the game. During Beijing I (like most Americans) was glued to the tube watching Michael Phelps break his records, but to be honest if I knew he'd be swimming in a race down at the local Gold's Gym tomorrow I could care less.

Yes these are some of the best athletes in the world, playing a very entertaining sport, but take away the relevance and organiztion of the NBA and their "product" will not be in very high demand.

 

[Kenwood]

Very good point. If LeBron were the product, would we pay $100 (or more) to watch him shoot jump shots in an empty gym? Some people might do it once, but not 20,000 people, 82 nights a year.

The product is the games: a combination of skills and personalities (players) with capital, arenas, marketing and TV contracts (owners). Even if the players were to start a "league" of sorts, it wouldn't involve ~400 players, and would probably have to be finanaced by agents or some other businessmen anyway. The players may make a lot, but not enough to start their own league by themselves.

The owners and players need each other. That's why they'll figure this out at some point. I just hope it's sooner than our fears might indicate.

 

[DutchJazzer]

The teams are the rpoduct.

if individuals where the product. i would watch a game of one on one

 

[carolinajazz]

The teams are the rpoduct.

if individuals where the product. i would watch a game of one on one

....personally, I watch NBA games for the fantastic "body" art that is on display! The "creative" jailhouse tats are absolutely mind boggling and so soothing to the eyes!

 

[TheItinerantSon]

NIKE money, the players should start their own league, and in exchange for lower salaries they get equity in hte league.

They should be 30 teams but only 15 in the upper division (have soccer style relegation). Also they should play lots of games in basketball hotbeds that dont normally get to see games. So the chicago teams should play some of their games in lexington/louisville etc to help with revenue.

Have a 1 on 1 tournament during the all-star break. What exactly do they need maloof brothers for again?

 

[margodydek]

NIKE money, the players should start their own league, and in exchange for lower salaries they get equity in hte league.

They should be 30 teams but only 15 in the upper division (have soccer style relegation). Also they should play lots of games in basketball hotbeds that dont normally get to see games. So the chicago teams should play some of their games in lexington/louisville etc to help with revenue.

Have a 1 on 1 tournament during the all-star break. What exactly do they need maloof brothers for again?

Die-Hard fans would be all over this, but say bye-bye to all the casual fans. I consider myself a pretty big basketball fan and a die-hard Jazz fan, but unless there was a team here in Utah (aint happening), then I might catch a few games, but in no way would I be invested or want to spend any money on this product. The NBA's history and legacy are more valuable than people realize. You start your own league you completely lose those litmus tests (records, stats, etc), and relevance that make watching the game so fun.

 

[TheItinerantSon]

The league would come crawling back on bended knee though.

Do you think pokhorov and gilbert would allow their hundred million dollar investment be reduced to nothing? Jerry Buss would see billions of his net worth evaporate in this scenario.

both sides can engage in brinksmanship, and if the owners want to play hardball the players should dish it right back.

Remember, most of the players came from nothing, and many of them will end up bankrupt (as some of you have gleefully noted). Thats the most dangerous person to get into a standoff with.

 

[trigg3r]

The league would come crawling back on bended knee though.

Do you think pokhorov and gilbert would allow their hundred million dollar investment be reduced to nothing? Jerry Buss would see billions of his net worth evaporate in this scenario.

both sides can engage in brinksmanship, and if the owners want to play hardball the players should dish it right back.

Remember, most of the players came from nothing, and many of them will end up bankrupt (as some of you have gleefully noted). Thats the most dangerous person to get into a standoff with.

I can't speak for other fans, but I wouldn't care about a new league even if it had the same talent. That would probably be the death of my professional basketball interest. Oh and I have been very close to that point in the past. I guess there would be a lot of people that would still follow it but give me a good reason to follow it. The NBA as has been said has its own brand. Will this new league create a Utah franchise? Doubtful.

 

[JimLes]

The league would come crawling back on bended knee though.

Do you think pokhorov and gilbert would allow their hundred million dollar investment be reduced to nothing? Jerry Buss would see billions of his net worth evaporate in this scenario.

both sides can engage in brinksmanship, and if the owners want to play hardball the players should dish it right back.

Remember, most of the players came from nothing, and many of them will end up bankrupt (as some of you have gleefully noted). Thats the most dangerous person to get into a standoff with.

The only way the threat of a breakaway league would work is if there was a reasonable chance that it would employ most players currently under contract. I'm not saying LeBron and his buddies couldn't get a 10-team touring ensemble going reasonably quickly, but can you get a league with 30 teams, where the players would be getting the same pay the NBA gives them now?

The NBPA is 400-450 guys. Their votes all count the same, be they LeBron James or Brian Scalabrine. If there was a threat of a breakaway league that would only take a third of the players, what do you think the other two thirds would do? Call a full-membership vote and accept the most recent offer by the owners. They'd have the majority and what can LeBron do? He's got a contract with Miami Heat, he's got a CBA with the league -- he has to play.

To get a 30-team league that would pay even close to what the NBA does would take more than a few months. Considering all the logistics, and even lawsuits that would be inevitable, it might take a couple of years. How does it make sense to not get paid for the remainder of your NBA contract to play in a league 2 years from now, unless your pay in that league was so much higher than your NBA pay as to make up for the two years you missed.

It's just not a very realistic threat, and the players using it would just make them sound even more like they don't really have a plan.

 

[TheItinerantSon]

im not a lawyer but i'll bet the players could get out of their contracts.

Besides if the players association signs another CBA, and league play resumes, the top 50 guys could hold out while the owners were still on the hook for paying all the rank and file players.

Now thats a business model that won't work.

 

[JimLes]

im not a lawyer but i'll bet the players could get out of their contracts.

Besides if the players association signs another CBA, and league play resumes, the top 50 guys could hold out while the owners were still on the hook for paying all the rank and file players.

Now thats a business model that won't work.

All this assumes lawsuits and lots of them. Holding out means lawsuits, too. And since you're not a lawyer, nor am I, I'm not sure we can speculate on the outcome of those cases. What we can be sure of is that it would take a long time to settle them. Judgments, decisions, appeals. Lather, rinse, repeat.

It's fine to talk about possibilities, but for a threat to work, it has to be realistic. Among other things, it has to take less effort than the original thing you're threatening against. Threatening to run away from home because your mum makes you take out the garbage only makes sense if you believe that your life on the run will be easier than taking out the garbage. Sure, the players could conceivably start their own league, but by all accounts, it sounds like it'd be harder and more costly than simply saying "We'll take the 50-50."

 

[freakazoid]

im not a lawyer but i'll bet the players could get out of their contracts.

Besides if the players association signs another CBA, and league play resumes, the top 50 guys could hold out while the owners were still on the hook for paying all the rank and file players.

Now thats a business model that won't work.

I think the players should start riding fire-breathing dragons. The owners would have to take them seriously. Nobody wants to **** with a guy on a dragon.

 

[green]

I would love to see the players start their own league. These are the same people that sent Paul Pierce in to negotiate a new deal with Stern. Pathetic.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I think the players should start riding fire-breathing dragons. The owners would have to take them seriously. Nobody wants to **** with a guy on a dragon.

wrong
dragons are gay

Public service anouncemnt: the gay used in this message refers to :"having or showing a merry, lively mood eg : gay spirits; gay music."
or "bright or showy eg : gay colors; gay ornaments. "