Political ideology thread

[b_line]

So we talk about a lot of politics on Jazzfanz. Some threads are great for discussion, some are basically back and forth attacks between two sides of the spectrum.

I wanted to try this out and see if it might work. The idea is that in this thread we talk about policy ideology, why we like things we do, the way they theoretically work, and how to apply them. Try not to be a dick in this thread. If you want to be a dick, go to another thread.

I think this is a super useful way to learn about other peoples political views in a respectful way. No political topic is off limits, and no one is right in this thread.

I will start it out with my views on wealth distribution and taxation in the next post.

 

[b_line]

I subscribe to the liberal view that rich people need to pay their fare share of taxes, but with a twist. I think it's important to realize that people who continually make a lot of money do not make that money by 100% of their own virtue. For example, say a guy starts a shipping company under the premise that he has found a way to be more efficient than the current options, and ends up making a lot of money. Good for him. The other part of the story is that he used the roads, cities, people and other infrastructure of the locality and country in which he does business.

I think it is important to actualize the real cost of doing business in our country by putting a price on the use of the infrastructure, including human capital.

Some proposals out there currently say that we should raise taxes on business and on the high wage earners. I think the problem is deeper than that, but I am not sure how to fix it. The problem probably lies in the business tax structure, in that a lot of the responsibility for providing infrastructure falls to the private tax payer, and not the business tax payer.

Bottom line though, is that the infrastructure needs to exist, including a healthy and robust human capital variant in that infrastructure, and someone has to foot the bill. I am not convinced that any of the proposals that are currently out there are a good answer to fixing the problem, and it might need to be rethought entirely.

 

[fishonjazz]

Legalize it!

 

[fishonjazz]

Really doe, good post b-line

 

[b_line]

Legalize it!

I really agree on this. I think there is a lot of misinformation about the legalization of marijuana. I think Medical Marijuana has really suffered from the recreational part of the drug. I was reading about cbd oil the other day, and that stuff seems awesome. Hopefully we can make some really big advances in medical marijuana, as well as declassifying pot from being a drug labeled as bad as Heroin.


I hear Obama is set to reclassify weed on the way out of his presidency. That would be awesome. No more prisoners in super long sentences for distributing weed.

 

[Stoked]

For me the debating of the use of it is pointless. legalize it. I agree that the recreational use had been demonized and it's very foolish IMO. This from someone who wants it legalized but has 0 interest in using.

Also I want to make a post in here about two parent households and the fall of them but I don't have it in me right now.

 

[RandyForRubio]

I'm a fiscal conservative, social moderate on most things (not abortion).

I'm not against helping people, but I feel that when you give a person too much, they will in return do too little for themselves (with exception of course). I have seen this at work, in school, with practically everything I've ever been involved in. Basically, it's pointless to give somebody a fish if you aren't teaching them to fish along with it. I believe the US reservations are a good example of this tbh.

I also don't mind paying taxes, I view them as an investment. Like all investments though, I'd like to see where my money is going. That's a way to really involve the electorate, to let them know where their dollar is going. Whether it's going towards education, a $1000 chair for the army, or a study on why chickens lay eggs. Accountability is needed in that area, IMO.

 

[Siro]

Also I want to make a post in here about two parent households and the fall of them but I don't have it in me right now.

Humanity survived for tens of thousands of years before that dynamic was invented, and it will survive long after it had become obsolete.

As for me, I believe life has no purpose other than what you create for yourself, and no meaning aside from the coincidence that the conditions of the universe allowed for our existence. Ideologically, I am often amazed at the limit of individual knowledge and understanding, and I find my views changing and evolving with time. Currently, I believe that humanity's moral and material progress is correlated to technological advancement, and I shape my worldview around whichever system enables that. I think market economy is good at it, and thus I am partial to it. But I am always eager to learn about alternative paradigms.

 

[Jamezz]

SOCIALISM SUCKS!

 

[Jamezz]

SOCIALISM SUCKS!

Oops sorry, wrong thread. I'll go jerk around in the Donald Trump thread.

 

[♪alt13]

I think that governments were instituted for the purpose of protecting the property and privilege of the few. I believe this is still their primary function today and always will be so long as we continue to centralize decision making in so few leaders and institutions. I believe the government cannot get out of the welfare business because it's system of property has condemned the vast majority of people to collect a mere fraction of the value of their labor. I think that the state has always lagged behind social change and has only come to accept it once it could no longer resist it.

I believe that we will replace not only the state but also megalithic corporations with institutions that better serve the people, though not in my lifetime.

 

[b_line]

I'm a fiscal conservative, social moderate on most things (not abortion).

I'm not against helping people, but I feel that when you give a person too much, they will in return do too little for themselves (with exception of course). I have seen this at work, in school, with practically everything I've ever been involved in. Basically, it's pointless to give somebody a fish if you aren't teaching them to fish along with it. I believe the US reservations are a good example of this tbh.

I also don't mind paying taxes, I view them as an investment. Like all investments though, I'd like to see where my money is going. That's a way to really involve the electorate, to let them know where their dollar is going. Whether it's going towards education, a $1000 chair for the army, or a study on why chickens lay eggs. Accountability is needed in that area, IMO.

I really like this viewpoint. I know some people who say that government is inherently poor at money management. That never made sense to me. I like your viewpoint because you are fine paying, you just want to make sure it is used in a good way, or the right way. It's probably not even too much of a leap to say that you would be willing to participate in decision making on how the money would be spent, and managing to make sure things are run correctly. This is an attitude that needs to be more prevelant, imo.

 

[b_line]

I think that governments were instituted for the purpose of protecting the property and privilege of the few. I believe this is still their primary function today and always will be so long as we continue to centralize decision making in so few leaders and institutions. I believe the government cannot get out of the welfare business because it's system of property has condemned the vast majority of people to collect a mere fraction of the value of their labor. I think that the state has always lagged behind social change and has only come to accept it once it could no longer resist it.

I believe that we will replace not only the state but also megalithic corporations with institutions that better serve the people, though not in my lifetime.

What you said about dooming people to collect only a small portion of their wealth really resonates with me. I don't pretend to know how to fix it, but I think it is a huge problem in our society.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think that one of the main courses that should be taught in school is finance. And other things that will help children grow into productive adults.

Why do I need to know when the civil war was or who signed what treaty or whatever or many many other things I was taught in school.

What would have been nice was if i had learned about how to create and balance a budget, how to invest my money, how to work on things around the house like painting, doing tile, replacing carpet and many other things. Teach me about how a lease for a car works and why it's better or worse than not leasing. Teach me about interest and how devastating it can be. Have an honest class about substance abuse and the dangers of it.
Basically imo high school should teach kids how to be a productive and functioning adult.
College should be where someone learns how to excel in a specific industry/job.

 

[Jamezz]

Eliminate both the income and corporate taxes and watch this country flourish.

 

[b_line]

So a lot of people are really opposed to the free public college idea. What if we framed it differently and changed the way high school was structured? What if High school was more like what Fish said, and helped people to succeed better at life, and could be extended to a vocational school, on public money?

It would be awesome if these kids came out of school ready for jobs, ready to manage their money a little better. If kids learned the way an auto loan works from school rather than from defaulting on their first one, that would be pretty great.

College could be improved if people were encouraged to get degrees and programs in vocational skills like electrician work, plumbing, HVAC technician, etc instead of trying for two years to figure out that they don't like studying english and literature.

 

[b_line]

Eliminate both the income and corporate taxes and watch this country flourish.

Please explain your reasoning in this. If we eliminated this tax, where would the money for roads and infrastructure come from?

If you are not proposing any increases in other taxes like sales tax, luxury tax, property tax, etc, how do you propose to pay for essential government programs like law enforcement?

 

[RandyForRubio]

Dude, I've been harping on the trade school thing for a while.

Problem is that it isn't a "sexy" job. Which is dumb.

 

[RandyForRubio]

I also think rather than taxing the rich excessively, give them incentives to spend their money.

Basically, the rich are almost always gonna make money. It's the middle class/poor we're worried about. Instead of the government helping them, have the local business owner do it. Provide incentives to spend, people buy equipment, buildings, etc...it creates jobs and it's not a temporary fix.

 

[b_line]

Dude, I've been harping on the trade school thing for a while.

Problem is that it isn't a "sexy" job. Which is dumb.

I do remember seeing some posts from you on that. I think it can even be taken a step further to change the way our engineers are trained. I really don't think it benefits future engineers to have to take courses in humanities, etc. In the past, it was probably pretty beneficial to see how other people think in this world, but we have so many media outlets these days, that people are exposed to so many different trains of thought.