Poll: Should the Jazz Match Hayward's $15.75 a year/4 year Contract?

[sirkickyass]

Just shows how unconscious you are about the tone you're setting the way you engage into conversation with me. Now that you're seeing your mistakes you try to change the topic. NIce try, lawyer.

So show me a team with real cap space that's shown willingness to compete right away.

So now you're moving the goalposts to suit the position you want to defend. A message board classic.

I don't think it's helpful to continue down this path. I don't even really know who you are so I'm not getting much juice out of it.

 

[Nasty Style]

How is this a kick in the nuts to Favors? Gordon and his agent looked at the landscape and gambled... That gamble paid off... The only one who needs nut kicking is favors agent.

That the bottom line is Hayward is getting paid a good amount more. The message sent is that if you want to be a team player, thanks! Now we can overpay a player who unlike you, his stats are progressively getting worse. Keep up the team spirit!
Instead, it could be: Thanks for saving us some cap space, we'll be appreciative and surround you with good players deserving of the $ you allowed us to work with.
Or even the message Hayward is sending to the team. Me first. There's some good examples of players taking less to field a good team.

 

[mellow]

Don't skip any steps.

Let the inefficient guy go when he is offered too much by another team. Bringing him back on that contract will have a ripple effect through your other young players. The spotlight was on him last season and he mostly shrunk. What will it be like when the 15 million dollar spotlight is shined on him and 12 -13 of his teammates are staring at him too.

Jazz have sucked this long,and are going to suck for the foreseeable future, no need to make it worse by this. Let it go.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That the bottom line is Hayward is getting paid a good amount more. The message sent is that if you want to be a team player, thanks! Now we can overpay a player who unlike you, his stats are progressively getting worse. Keep up the team spirit!
Instead, it could be: Thanks for saving us some cap space, we'll be appreciative and surround you with good players deserving of the $ you allowed us to work with.

When favors signed his deal it wasn't because he's a team player... His agent looked at the risk of injury or poor play and said this deal gives us enough. He didn't say I can sign for the max or take less money and be a team player.

Imagine if Gordon had blown up his knee last year... How much money would he have lost? He gambled and won... Favors took the safe route ( which I would have done as well... I'm not criticizing him). Even if you hate the contract all the Gordon isn't a team player because he is taking the money stuff has to stop... Had the jazz offered favors the max he would have taken it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Don't skip any steps.

Let the inefficient guy go when he is offered too much by another team. Bringing him back on that contract will have a ripple effect through your other young players. The spotlight was on him last season and he mostly shrunk. What will it be like when the 15 million dollar spotlight is shined on him and 12 -13 of his teammates are staring at him too.

Jazz have sucked this long,and are going to suck for the foreseeable future, no need to make it worse by this. Let it go.

The trickle down has already happened whether we match or not... These guys know he's getting paid whether it's in Charlotte or Utah. Don't think that really factors in on whether to match.

 

[Nasty Style]

When favors signed his deal it wasn't because he's a team player... His agent looked at the risk of injury or poor play and said this deal gives us enough. He didn't say I can sign for the max or take less money and be a team player.

Imagine if Gordon had blown up his knee last year... How much money would he have lost? He gambled and won... Favors took the safe route ( which I would have done as well... I'm not criticizing him). Even if you hate the contract all the Gordon isn't a team player because he is taking the money stuff has to stop... Had the jazz offered favors the max he would have taken it.

I just moved back to Utah and wasn't able to follow the Jazz too closely the past several years. Was Favors injured? To the best of my knowledge, he wasn't or it wasn't too serious. You're telling me a young, up and coming shot-blocking big man wouldn't command more in FA than Hayward? I bet he would be offered the max from plenty of teams and he knew it. Unless Parsons and Hayward are more valuable...
I saw Favors supporting the team last night and am pretty positive he and his agent knew he could have gotten plenty more.
And poor play? Hayward was given the green light and failed. Stats keep getting worse. Sometimes I think AK is out there handling the ball until I see the #20. Favors will be a candidate for Def Player of the Year for years to come. What's Hayward got going for him? The League's most Declining Player Award?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I just moved back to Utah and wasn't able to follow the Jazz too closely the past several years. Was Favors injured? To the best of my knowledge, he wasn't or it wasn't too serious. You're telling me a young, up and coming shot-blocking big man wouldn't command more in FA than Hayward? I bet he would be offered the max from plenty of teams and he knew it. Unless Parsons and Hayward are more valuable...
I saw Favors supporting the team last night and am pretty positive he and his agent knew he could have gotten plenty more.
And poor play? Hayward was given the green light and failed. Stats keep getting worse. Sometimes I think AK is out there handling the ball until I see the #20. Favors will be a candidate for Def Player of the Year for years to come. What's Hayward got going for him? The League's most Declining Player Award?

He wasn't hurt, but could have got hurt during the season and lost money. The other risk would be that he could have payed poorly, didn't hurt Hayward though, and cost himself money. He took a discount from the max because of the risk factor... Not because he is unselfish. If he had a crystal ball he would have waited.

Btw I have hopes for favors as a guy that will be a leader here for a long time. I just don't think favors was offered more and said " you know I'll take less so we can build a winner here".

 

[Nasty Style]

He wasn't hurt, but could have got hurt during the season and lost money. The other risk would be that he could have payed poorly, didn't hurt Hayward though, and cost himself money. He took a discount from the max because of the risk factor... Not because he is unselfish. If he had a crystal ball he would have waited.

Btw I have hopes for favors as a guy that will be a leader here for a long time. I just don't think favors was offered more and said " you know I'll take less so we can build a winner here".

Neither of us can say what he was thinking or what his motives were. Obviously the Jazz are nowhere near being a contender, but he wasn't hell bent on squeezing every last penny he could like Hayward. Do I think his #1 priority was to help the Jazz, probably not, but scoring a salary commensurate with his counterparts obviously wasn't high on his list. That shows me he's not just there to get paid and is reasonable.
Again, bottom line is Hayward doesn't deserve more than him, at least THAT much more. C'mon, Charlotte offered him that contract and only Charlotte. Their shrewd front office has just had bad luck in the past I'm sure...

 

[Nasty Style]

In fact, a wise GM should do the opposite of a few franchises and they'll come out winners. Charlotte is included in that group.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Neither of us can say what he was thinking or what his motives were. Obviously the Jazz are nowhere near being a contender, but he wasn't hell bent on squeezing every last penny he could like Hayward. Do I think his #1 priority was to help the Jazz, probably not, but scoring a salary commensurate with his counterparts obviously wasn't high on his list. That shows me he's not just there to get paid and is reasonable.
Again, bottom line is Hayward doesn't deserve more than him, at least THAT much more. C'mon, Charlotte offered him that contract and only Charlotte. Their shrewd front office has just had bad luck in the past I'm sure...

Agree motivations may be different, but don't think favors should or will be butt hurt by this... If he is he should direct that frustration towards his agent and not Gordon or jazz management.

 

[ema]

The thing is, in the best case for Hayward, he will improve his game only slightly(some can argue about this though), maybe he can gain some consistency with slightly better numbers/percentages. To me, that's not a thing we may regret about if we let him walk, considering the price tag.

On the other hand, there is a greater chance that he might stay as pretty much the same Hayward we know with his trademark inconsistency and insecurity. Or he might even regress a bit. In that kind of case, I don't even want to imagine we have Hayward and we are paying him $16M a year.

So when I think this as a gamble, I certainly would let someone else play it. If they win, kudos to them, they'll have a nice player that they will still overpay most likely. If they lose, well then, it serves them right, wouldn't give a damn. I probably even enjoy them suffering. Heck, the Jazz shouldn't give them even the time of day, anyway.

 

[mellow]

In fact, a wise GM should do the opposite of a few franchises and they'll come out winners. Charlotte is included in that group.

Wait, Charlotte is in which group?

 

[Nasty Style]

Agree motivations may be different, but don't think favors should or will be butt hurt by this... If he is he should direct that frustration towards his agent and not Gordon or jazz management.

You think the Jazz weren't prepared to offer Favors more $? (Ir)Regardless(Boozer), that's what they offered him. If the Jazz match the offer, they will in effect be offering Hayward that ridiculous contract. Think about where you work...Your company gives you a raise and you accept it. Your co-worker who's been steadily declining in performance, is always late, has a bad attitude, passes the buck, whatever, is due for a raise and goes to the competition for leverage. Your company finds out that they're going to pay him way more than he's worth and decides to pay the same. You're saying no part of you would feel any resentment?
He's getting paid for not showing up is the bottom line. I love the Jazz but have a hard time supporting moves that Charlotte would make. We're better than that and not hurting at the SF/SG position. He doesn't deserve it.
I'm saying do another Golden State trade this year, there's good FA's next year - get one. Gordon is not a player you build your team around. I know the talk about his contract will be up when...I don't like the team going in the GH direction the next 3 years. It will ruin the direction the team should and will need to go when he bolts.

 

[colton]

Interesting that the poll in this thread started out 70-30 against matching for the first few days but is now only 60-40 against. Guess many people are coming to terms with the idea of matching the offer.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Interesting that the poll in this thread started out 70-30 against matching for the first few days but is now only 60-40 against. Guess many people are coming to terms with the idea of matching the offer.

It's that whole Denial, Anger, Acceptance thing.

And, I think we're very jazzed (pun intended) over the tease Quin gave everyone in the open practice. Up-tempo, free-flowing offense should fit Hayward much better. I think Gordon is really going to like Quin.

But no, I haven't changed my opinion. I still don't think the Jazz should match (but they will). And I hope Hayward turns into a 20/5/5 player who shoots 45%/40 and makes me eat my words. If he does, I will openly admit I was wrong...but only if he does not then opt out after Year 3 and demand $20M+.

 

[Nasty Style]

It's that whole Denial, Anger, Acceptance thing.

And, I think we're very jazzed (pun intended) over the tease Quin gave everyone in the open practice. Up-tempo, free-flowing offense should fit Hayward much better. I think Gordon is really going to like Quin.

Ya know, with that being said, it really is hard to assess players under the Corbin regime.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Ya know, with that being said, it really is hard to assess players under the Corbin regime.

In one sentence, why the last three years were almost completely wasted.

 

[Shocker00]

There is no way Burks or Kanter will agree to any contract extension now, when Hayward gets rewarded like this for his worst season of his career. This just opened up the door for them to do the samething. The Jazz should have never mentioned they would match any contract Hayward would get because there was a lot of money out to be spent this year. Other teams new the only chance they had was to throw the max at him. If the Jazz were smart they would have pretended they were not interested after his bad season and who knows maybe the Hornets might have offerd 11-13M a year.

 

[cowhide]

When favors signed his deal it wasn't because he's a team player... His agent looked at the risk of injury or poor play and said this deal gives us enough. He didn't say I can sign for the max or take less money and be a team player.

Imagine if Gordon had blown up his knee last year... How much money would he have lost? He gambled and won... Favors took the safe route ( which I would have done as well... I'm not criticizing him). Even if you hate the contract all the Gordon isn't a team player because he is taking the money stuff has to stop... Had the jazz offered favors the max he would have taken it.

Actually Favors did talk about the team first, he wanted to know if the Jazz would promise to keep as many players as they could and he took a reasonable contract. I don't belittle Hayward for getting the maximum amount of money but as a fan I care about the Jazz and not one player so I am going to appreciate Favors more because he considered the team as a whole. I don't hate Gordon nor will I if he comes back, I am just completely against paying him that much money when there are better options. My disdain for the deal will even be greater if Hood is as good as I think he will be. Guys like Hayward are easily replaceable. Now if you were talking about re-signing/trading Stockton and Malone in their prime then it would be an easy decision.

 

[mellow]

In one sentence, why the last three years were almost completely wasted.

Uh, uh uh, I think you meant the last three seasons were spent not skipping steps. Because you can't re build from the bottom up unless you start at the bottom.