Question about LDS Church after Smith's death.

[green]

If the Church is led by God, why was there so much dissection and confusion over the next prophet?

At the very least, wouldn't God or an angel appear to each remaining leader and make it perfectly clear who the successor was?

And if so, why did Young reach out to Smith III so often to have him join church leadership, and why did Smith III refuse?

I'm wondering other's thoughts. Thanks.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Could you not pose the same question of Christ's church after Christ died and was resurrected?

You have the apostles at that time that are the undisputed leaders of the church, but then what happens?

It's called people being people. There will be people that choose to grab for perceived power, and there will be people that don't and do things the way they should. There are a million reasons why people do things, and only some of them are the best reasons. Good people can change and do bad things. Bad people can change and do good things. Even if an angel appeared to each remaining leader, would that really solve things?

Whether you think it good or bad, God wants belief in him to be faith based.
He says that faith is the power by which many things happen, faith can move mountains.
I have never read/heard it said that knowledge can move mountains despite the need for and good things knowledge can bring to us.
Faith with knowledge is doubly powerful imo and the direction we could/should be heading.

Could God appear to every one of us and just tell us what we should be doing and why? Sure, but would that really help us become who we can become through struggle? Imo it's as much about the journey in becoming who we need/want to be as where we end up as a destination. You just don't get to the destination without the journey.

I don't know if this answers what you are really stating/asking but thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[colton]

If the Church is led by God, why was there so much dissection and confusion over the next prophet?

I don't think there was that much confusion. Something like 99% of the church members followed Brigham Young.

At the very least, wouldn't God or an angel appear to each remaining leader and make it perfectly clear who the successor was?

Brigham Young seemed perfectly clear that he was to be the successor. Or are you saying that the other church leaders should have been clear about Brigham Young? The vast majority of them were.

And if so, why did Young reach out to Smith III so often to have him join church leadership,

Perhaps out of concern for his best friend's son?

and why did Smith III refuse?

Can't answer that.

 

[Bronco70]

MoPeeps (of which I am one) seem to have this notion that Prophets are infallible, and will always do and say the right thing. I don't believe that to be accurate, and there is a lot of scriptural corroboration to that point. Personally, I think the church (mostly in matters of policy, rather than doctrine) is run by guys who know what's up with God, as opposed to being run directly by God, through a middle man. There was an interview with Gordon B. Hinckley several years back (for 60 minutes, IIRC) that really changed my understanding of how the God-prophet team works. And of any and all LDS Prophet/Presidents, Hinckley always stood out to me (by far) as the most genuine forthright. Not that the others weren't honest, but I think they like to maintain a face that is least likely to start trouble.

If God is personally calling all the shots, all the time, it doesn't seem like there's much of a point to it.

Also, I apologize now for that disjointed, speculative, and semi-retarded ramble.

 

[bigb]

I've long thought that God pretty much stays out of it, unless somebody is going to really screw it up. My view is that He sits up there on His throne and says "Yeah, that could work. Give it a shot." I don't necessarily view it as Him saying "Do it THIS way or be damned!!!"

 

[Dr. Jones]

Could you not pose the same question of Christ's churchafter Christ died and was resurrected?

You have the apostles at that time that are the undisputed leaders of the church, but then what happens?

It's called people being people. There will be people that choose to grab for perceived power, and there will be people that don't and do things the way they should. There are a million reasons why people do things, and only some of them are the best reasons. Good people can change and do bad things. Bad people can change and do good things. Even if an angel appeared to each remaining leader, would that really solve things?

Whether you think it good or bad, God wants belief in him to be faith based.
He says that faith is the power by which many things happen, faith can move mountains.
I have never read/heard it said that knowledge can move mountains despite the need for and good things knowledge can bring to us.
Faith with knowledge is doubly powerful imo and the direction we could/should be heading.

Could God appear to every one of us and just tell us what we should be doing and why? Sure, but would that really help us become who we can become through struggle? Imo it's as much about the journey in becoming who we need/want to be as where we end up as a destination. You just don't get to the destination without the journey.

I don't know if this answers what you are really stating/asking but thought I'd throw it out there.

/thread


#shotsfired

 

[Dr. Jones]

Could you not pose the same question of Christ's churchafter Christ died and was resurrected?

You have the apostles at that time that are the undisputed leaders of the church, but then what happens?

It's called people being people. There will be people that choose to grab for perceived power, and there will be people that don't and do things the way they should. There are a million reasons why people do things, and only some of them are the best reasons. Good people can change and do bad things. Bad people can change and do good things. Even if an angel appeared to each remaining leader, would that really solve things?

Whether you think it good or bad, God wants belief in him to be faith based.
He says that faith is the power by which many things happen, faith can move mountains.
I have never read/heard it said that knowledge can move mountains despite the need for and good things knowledge can bring to us.
Faith with knowledge is doubly powerful imo and the direction we could/should be heading.

Could God appear to every one of us and just tell us what we should be doing and why? Sure, but would that really help us become who we can become through struggle? Imo it's as much about the journey in becoming who we need/want to be as where we end up as a destination. You just don't get to the destination without the journey.

I don't know if this answers what you are really stating/asking but thought I'd throw it out there.

/thread


#shotsfired

 

[green]

Thanks for the thoughts. They've got me thinking. I'll try to respond tonight when I'm not on my phone.

 

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

Could you not pose the same question of Christ's church after Christ died and was resurrected?

You have the apostles at that time that are the undisputed leaders of the church, but then what happens?

It's called people being people. There will be people that choose to grab for perceived power, and there will be people that don't and do things the way they should. There are a million reasons why people do things, and only some of them are the best reasons. Good people can change and do bad things. Bad people can change and do good things. Even if an angel appeared to each remaining leader, would that really solve things?

Whether you think it good or bad, God wants belief in him to be faith based.
He says that faith is the power by which many things happen, faith can move mountains.
I have never read/heard it said that knowledge can move mountains despite the need for and good things knowledge can bring to us.
Faith with knowledge is doubly powerful imo and the direction we could/should be heading.

Could God appear to every one of us and just tell us what we should be doing and why? Sure, but would that really help us become who we can become through struggle? Imo it's as much about the journey in becoming who we need/want to be as where we end up as a destination. You just don't get to the destination without the journey.

I don't know if this answers what you are really stating/asking but thought I'd throw it out there.

There is never question on catholic succession. Why do LDS push this myth?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

There is never question on catholic succession. Why do LDS push this myth?

There is never question on alt fake accent. Why do truthers say truth?

 

[RandyForRubio]

MoPeeps (of which I am one) seem to have this notion that Prophets are infallible, and will always do and say the right thing. I don't believe that to be accurate, and there is a lot of scriptural corroboration to that point. Personally, I think the church (mostly in matters of policy, rather than doctrine) is run by guys who know what's up with God, as opposed to being run directly by God, through a middle man. There was an interview with Gordon B. Hinckley several years back (for 60 minutes, IIRC) that really changed my understanding of how the God-prophet team works. And of any and all LDS Prophet/Presidents, Hinckley always stood out to me (by far) as the most genuine forthright. Not that the others weren't honest, but I think they like to maintain a face that is least likely to start trouble.

If God is personally calling all the shots, all the time, it doesn't seem like there's much of a point to it.

Also, I apologize now for that disjointed, speculative, and semi-retarded ramble.

According to scripture, the prophets themselves were fallible, but their prophecies were not, as their prophecies came from God.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Could you not pose the same question of Christ's church after Christ died and was resurrected?

You have the apostles at that time that are the undisputed leaders of the church, but then what happens?

It's called people being people. There will be people that choose to grab for perceived power, and there will be people that don't and do things the way they should. There are a million reasons why people do things, and only some of them are the best reasons. Good people can change and do bad things. Bad people can change and do good things. Even if an angel appeared to each remaining leader, would that really solve things?

Whether you think it good or bad, God wants belief in him to be faith based.
He says that faith is the power by which many things happen, faith can move mountains.
I have never read/heard it said that knowledge can move mountains despite the need for and good things knowledge can bring to us.
Faith with knowledge is doubly powerful imo and the direction we could/should be heading.

Could God appear to every one of us and just tell us what we should be doing and why? Sure, but would that really help us become who we can become through struggle? Imo it's as much about the journey in becoming who we need/want to be as where we end up as a destination. You just don't get to the destination without the journey.

I don't know if this answers what you are really stating/asking but thought I'd throw it out there.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I would argue that the Christian church post Jesus never had a specific ordained leader. I mean, I suppose you could consider Catholics and the Pope in there, but I tend not to.

 

[fishonjazz]

Could God appear to every one of us and just tell us what we should be doing and why? Sure, but would that really help us become who we can become through struggle?

Struggle is overrated.
I would prefer that God come show himself to me and tell me what he wants from me in person...... Rather than trusting in some books and church leaders.
I could still choose to struggle and make incorrect decisions in any case

 

[fishonjazz]

I've long thought that God pretty much stays out of it, unless somebody is going to really screw it up. My view is that He sits up there on His throne and says "Yeah, that could work. Give it a shot." I don't necessarily view it as Him saying "Do it THIS way or be damned!!!"

Good post

 

[Bronco70]

According to scripture, the prophets themselves were fallible, but their prophecies were not, as their prophecies came from God.

Okay.

Are you expanding on my post, or refuting it? I was addressing LDS presidents and policy, not prophecy.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Okay.

Are you expanding on my post, or refuting it? I was addressing LDS presidents and policy, not prophecy.

A little of both maybe? I wasn't sure where you were going, so I'll explain further. You called them prophets, which would imply they give out prophecy. I was just explaining that based on the Bible, to be a true prophet their prophecy must be inerrant, but as humans they can/will be fallible.

 

[babe]

I don't think there was that much confusion. Something like 99% of the church members followed Brigham Young.



Brigham Young seemed perfectly clear that he was to be the successor. Or are you saying that the other church leaders should have been clear about Brigham Young? The vast majority of them were.



Perhaps out of concern for his best friend's son?



Can't answer that.

No firm stats.

Sidney Rigdon had a following that assembled later in Pennsylvania, there were a number of other offshoots at that time. There's a book called "Divergent Paths of the Restoration" by Sheldon. . . . .

 

[babe]

If the Church is led by God, why was there so much dissection and confusion over the next prophet?

At the very least, wouldn't God or an angel appear to each remaining leader and make it perfectly clear who the successor was?

And if so, why did Young reach out to Smith III so often to have him join church leadership, and why did Smith III refuse?

I'm wondering other's thoughts. Thanks.

This is a popular variant on the general problem of supposedly having a faith based on personal revelation or testimony while needing to place some faith in humans as well. . . .

What if God did make the "correct" way so perfectly clear nobody could doubt or dispute it? Do you really want a world like that?

 

[Jaymz]

This is a popular variant on the general problem of supposedly having a faith based on personal revelation or testimony while needing to place some faith in humans as well. . . .

What if God did make the "correct" way so perfectly clear nobody could doubt or dispute it? Do you really want a world like that?

A world where everyone has a choice? Hell no. Everyone must remain steadfast to my propaganda. REMAIN FAITHFUL AND ENDURE TO THE END!!!

 

[b_line]

According to scripture, the prophets themselves were fallible, but their prophecies were not, as their prophecies came from God.

I think that is what bronco is saying.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I would argue that the Christian church post Jesus never had a specific ordained leader. I mean, I suppose you could consider Catholics and the Pope in there, but I tend not to.

Us Mormons view Peter, James and John as the presidency of Christ's church and ordained prophets after Christ's leaving the earth. Seems like Catholics view Peter as the first Pope. The succession claims are the same, Mormons just believe the line if authority was broken for a long while, and believe it to be restored to Joseph Smith

What do most Christians believe in this aspect Christianity?