They pretty much can anyway, they'll just lie about the pretext for their search. Ive long maintained there is no problem with breaking the law just dont be dumb enough to get caught.
Questions About Unjust Police Conduct
- Thread starter Tom Pitt
- Start date
They pretty much can anyway, they'll just lie about the pretext for their search. Ive long maintained there is no problem with breaking the law just dont be dumb enough to get caught.
This makes more sense. Seen some of your car chases on youtube, cops here would be fired for that they're not allowed to chase at speeds over 140kph.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Slow down there Stalone, it sounds like you're an Aussie mall cop. You're not going to shock me with your harrowing stories of danger, sorry to disappoint you.
Illegal searches are illegal. If you care at all about the law you can't endorse your law enforcement officers breaking that law.
He doesn't care about the law. His only concern is not being stabbed more than 3 times. If cops need to mow down scores of random people to keep the number of stabs below that threshold, then so be it.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Hey there keyboard warrior, i don't give a **** what you think, i do this every day, deal with **** you can't imagine every day. What do you value more? The rule of law or not letting some 24 year old nurse just out of uni get stabbed by some ****bag on meth? Its pretty simple. We document over 7000 incidents of violence per annum in my 'shopping mall' how many do you get at your work?
The rule of law of course. Duh.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
This happened on July 26th.
The officer was hardly disciplined. The nurse tried to work out re-education and training programs on this policy with the SLPD. It was only after they refused to play ball that the nurse had this video footage released. Seems like the SLPD will only act if public outrage gets loud enough.
Sad
The officer was hardly disciplined. The nurse tried to work out re-education and training programs on this policy with the SLPD. It was only after they refused to play ball that the nurse had this video footage released. Seems like the SLPD will only act if public outrage gets loud enough.
Sad
Just to clarify, I wasn't being sarcastic. The rule of law is clearly far more important than potentially saving a life. If we are to accept that those with power should be above the law whenever they see fit, then we're truly ****ed.
If you think your actions justify breaking the law, then you should also be willing to face the legal consequences.
I am. Nothing wrong with breaking the law just don't get caught. Furthermore you can justify your actions afterward you will invariably be a more credible witness than your accuser, who will generally have a long criminal history.
Most of this law breaking happens in what are effectively gray areas of the law, put simply what gets done has to get done to ensure a safe working environment. Its not like we're summarily searching people on the street, these are generally people with documented histories of carrying weapons or people with a forensic history, they are often drug affected or suffering from a mental health problem or both. They may not be involuntary yet, in order to be made involuntary the mental health team will need to talk to them, before that can happen they need to be made safe for the clinician. Its up to you how you deal with the scenario, I will search them against their will if need be rather than release them back into the community. Most of the guys i work with will make the same choice.
So still got nothing then?
This situation has nothing to do with neutralizing some kind of acute threat or some type of violent individual. Watch the video of the chase here:
https://www.rt.com/usa/401670-nurse-arrested-blood-draw-unconscious-patient/
The guy they're trying to get blood from is the unconscious driver of the semi. Not exactly an acute threat. In this circumstance, I agree with Thriller.
Red
Well-Known Member
This seems an odd observation, maybe I'm misunderstanding you here. I'm sure a cop would be allowed to intervene if a nurse were being stabbed by anyone, meth head or otherwise.
As for the rule of law, well we are a nation of laws, it's going to take precedence. Unless in this situation suddenly the patient wakes up and proceeds to stab the nurse. Duh...
A 2016 Supreme Court ruling agreed cops can't draw blood without either a warrant or consent. But, this incident might be more complicated due to "implied consent". As explained here, though I do not know enough about interpreting law to know if this commentator is correct:
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/comme...d-nurse-was-wrong-but-the-law-is-complicated/
There's absolutely no implied consent. Implied consent is someone coming in unconscious from an accident who needs emergent surgery, or someone having a seizure needing an injection of Ativan. NOT someone unconscious needing blood drawn for legal (and not treatment) reasons. And those "legal" reasons are dubious, to boot.
I think there are two stories here and the cop/nurse issue is overshadowing the other. I'm just as concerned as why this cop was ever sent to the hospital for blood in the first place. That's some shady **** beyond one power-abusing police officer. This is a situation where enough of the relevant facts are known that this scenario should have never played out to begin with. "Protocol" that everyone involved in an accident, regardless of fault, has tox testing? ********. The police knew what happened. Looks to me like they wanted this story to hit print by being able to find possible fault with the semi driver. Seeing the actual accident, it wouldn't even matter if the semi truck driver had a blood alcohol level of 250 -- it didn't contribute to the accident, end of story. There are no other "unknown facts" that would change that. This guy was a victim and the police show up at the hospital for no other purpose than looking for an opportunity to **** him in the *** so they can save face. That's calculated, and you could obviously see the lengths they went to for that to happen.
Now, this happened in Logan and this is SLCPD, so somewhere along the lines Logan PD must have given bogus info to SLPD to rope them into this nonsense. Just my $0.02.
Now, this happened in Logan and this is SLCPD, so somewhere along the lines Logan PD must have given bogus info to SLPD to rope them into this nonsense. Just my $0.02.
Not just against hospital policy, but actually against the law.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Let's make it clear:
They weren't trying to draw the blood of the suspect. That person had already died. They were trying to draw the blood of a semi truck driver who crashed head on into the suspect while he was fleeing from police in a high speed chase. That semi truck driver has done nothing wrong. It could've been me or you. He just had the misfortune of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. The police knowing that they were in the wrong for engaging in a high speed pursuit (which has proven to actually cause more death and destruction) were trying desperately to place the blame on the semi truck driver. They tried to draw his blood in the off chance that he had substances in his blood. They knew they couldn't get a warrant since he was the victim, not a suspect. They couldn't get conscent, because he was unconscious/why the hell would he anyway? Lastly, no probable cause, because again, he's the victim. The police acted fast and desperately, knowing that they needed a blood sample asap before anything could be flushed from his system
The issues here are the following:
1. Why the hell are police still engaging in these chases? Most evidence driven studies show these to be counter productive. More often than not, innocent civilians, like this semi truck driver, are the victims from police officers too arrogant to call off these chases.
2. The rights of the semi truck driver. This guy was victimized once already by the police when they unwisely maintained a pursuit of suspect which resulted in the semi truck driver being crashed into head on by the fleeing suspect. Then they tried to violate him again by stealing his blood.
3. The rights of the nurse, who was harassed and unfairly arrested for following hospital policy agreed upon by the police.
4. The lack of disciplinary action by police. Initially, the nurse didn't want to make a big deal out of this. It happened on July 26th. She tried to play nice and didn't presss charges initially. But after nearly one month of watching zero reform zero retraining and zero consequence, she finally threw the hammer down and released this video.
5. SLPD attempted to sweep this under the rug. Had she never released this video none of us would've known that this happened. This scares me. Just how corrupt is this PD? How many other times has this happened? Has this animal been illegally drawing blood and bullying nurses his entire career? His commanding officer wasn't any better. He attempted to make her feel guilty for enforcing hospital policy. He too should be fired.
Had body cameras not been present, would we be faced with yet another Michael brown like situation where the blue boys circle the wagons while the public takes it up the butt?
I'm outraged with police conduct throughout this nation. So many seem more concerned with bullying people and shooting high grade weapons than serving the public. This is not how democracy works. Democratic countries cannot flourish under a militarized police.
Serious reforms are needed since they're incapable of policing themselves. It scares me what Donald is doing with allowing police to purchase military grade weapons. To me I feel like we are seeing the creation of a seriously grave threat of living under a police state. "Protect and serve?" Everyday we see more evidence of "attack the public, serve ourselves."
They weren't trying to draw the blood of the suspect. That person had already died. They were trying to draw the blood of a semi truck driver who crashed head on into the suspect while he was fleeing from police in a high speed chase. That semi truck driver has done nothing wrong. It could've been me or you. He just had the misfortune of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. The police knowing that they were in the wrong for engaging in a high speed pursuit (which has proven to actually cause more death and destruction) were trying desperately to place the blame on the semi truck driver. They tried to draw his blood in the off chance that he had substances in his blood. They knew they couldn't get a warrant since he was the victim, not a suspect. They couldn't get conscent, because he was unconscious/why the hell would he anyway? Lastly, no probable cause, because again, he's the victim. The police acted fast and desperately, knowing that they needed a blood sample asap before anything could be flushed from his system
The issues here are the following:
1. Why the hell are police still engaging in these chases? Most evidence driven studies show these to be counter productive. More often than not, innocent civilians, like this semi truck driver, are the victims from police officers too arrogant to call off these chases.
2. The rights of the semi truck driver. This guy was victimized once already by the police when they unwisely maintained a pursuit of suspect which resulted in the semi truck driver being crashed into head on by the fleeing suspect. Then they tried to violate him again by stealing his blood.
3. The rights of the nurse, who was harassed and unfairly arrested for following hospital policy agreed upon by the police.
4. The lack of disciplinary action by police. Initially, the nurse didn't want to make a big deal out of this. It happened on July 26th. She tried to play nice and didn't presss charges initially. But after nearly one month of watching zero reform zero retraining and zero consequence, she finally threw the hammer down and released this video.
5. SLPD attempted to sweep this under the rug. Had she never released this video none of us would've known that this happened. This scares me. Just how corrupt is this PD? How many other times has this happened? Has this animal been illegally drawing blood and bullying nurses his entire career? His commanding officer wasn't any better. He attempted to make her feel guilty for enforcing hospital policy. He too should be fired.
Had body cameras not been present, would we be faced with yet another Michael brown like situation where the blue boys circle the wagons while the public takes it up the butt?
I'm outraged with police conduct throughout this nation. So many seem more concerned with bullying people and shooting high grade weapons than serving the public. This is not how democracy works. Democratic countries cannot flourish under a militarized police.
Serious reforms are needed since they're incapable of policing themselves. It scares me what Donald is doing with allowing police to purchase military grade weapons. To me I feel like we are seeing the creation of a seriously grave threat of living under a police state. "Protect and serve?" Everyday we see more evidence of "attack the public, serve ourselves."
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Which is missed and, armchairs quarterbacking, should have been mentioned (shouldn't have to be as you'd hope law enforcement would be minimally competent with this law [perhaps they were]) rather than referencing 'hospital policy.' A handful of people out there chiming in as if she were placing hospital policy above the law. The hospital policy is based off of HIPAA, a federal law. Following the officer's orders who have opened her up to being criminally liable for 1) violation of HIPAA and 2) battery of the victim, among a host of other unpleasant consequences.
This, unfortunately, represents a number of issues in healthcare where you're caught between the law, malpractice, the patient's interest, and public outcry. Usually these don't overlap much on a Venn diagram and there's someone waiting to screw you regardless of which door you choose to exit. The public likes a scapegoat and, unbeknownst to them, could take any position in these controversies ignorantly, which speaks to the nebulous nature of the intersection of medicine, law and public safety, but nobody's much interested in resolving those issues because it serves its purpose of keeping an available scapegoat on retainer when you can't find anyone else to blame.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
It gets worse.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/09/...urse-saying-hed-take-good-patients-elsewhere/
Great guy. Definitely should continue to work in public law enforcement...
http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/09/...urse-saying-hed-take-good-patients-elsewhere/
Great guy. Definitely should continue to work in public law enforcement...