Questions About Unjust Police Conduct

[FalseFlagg K]

They brought the bloke into work who smashed windows and attacked the cops in fed square yesterday cause he said he smokes pot and has schizophrenia, there was nothing wrong with him, he was just a prick. 20 years ago they would have charged him and given him a hiding.

ya i've talked to a few cops who say some of these people doing the home invasions etc just laugh when they get picked up cause they play the mental illness card and say they've forgotten to take their meds and get off.

I think in Australia we don't have anywhere near enough police brutality lol (disclaimer - apologies to our American friends, i know your situation is different)

 

[♪alt13]

I grew up in Talorsville and had many experiences with the police from 16 to my early twenties. I completely agree with BP that dealing with sheriffs is much preferable to police or even HWP. I don't think it has anything to do with being elected, though. Just a different philosophy in what they are providing to the community. Sheriffs are much more likely to let you off with a warning, regardless of what you're busted for. They don't have quotas like the HWP for writing tickets.

Anyway, don't know if that's the case everywhere, but it was in SLC during the 80s/early 90s.

I don't think that it's legal to have quotas in Utah anymore. (something about a decade ago iirc?)

Still all police forces have an unwritten quota. Funding resources from many levels are often allocated based on crime rates. IMV crime rates are more indicative of enforcement than actual crime in most places. That's how I can live in a city (SLC) that is getting more safe(it really is) while the crime rates go up.

 

[Siro]

I don't think that it's legal to have quotas in Utah anymore. (something about a decade ago iirc?)

Still all police forces have an unwritten quota. Funding resources from many levels are often allocated based on crime rates. IMV crime rates are more indicative of enforcement than actual crime in most places. That's how I can live in a city (SLC) that is getting more safe(it really is) while the crime rates go up.

Interesting thought. Have numbers?

 

[Boris]

I don't think that it's legal to have quotas in Utah anymore. (something about a decade ago iirc?)

Still all police forces have an unwritten quota. Funding resources from many levels are often allocated based on crime rates. IMV crime rates are more indicative of enforcement than actual crime in most places. That's how I can live in a city (SLC) that is getting more safe(it really is) while the crime rates go up.

Back in the 90's they changed the law cause police was setting up speed traps an pulling people over fer goin 5 over at 4 a.m. on empty streets an fining em jest ta fill up the coffers an buy new cars n ****.

Than they went ta a state funded system where 90% of all ticket revenues went ta the state an the state determined where an how them funds was doled out.

That is when traffic school was born as a go around ta raise funds. Blackmail program. Than a judge found that illegal an said them funds go ta the state to.

 

[Harambe]

Thanks to this situation, internal policy regarding law enforcement has changed.

The U overwhelmingly supports Nurser Wubbels. Crazy good marks for her from both Nursing leadership and hospital administration.

During the incident, hospital administration were present and seeking Nurse Wubbel's release. Within hours, there was a come to Jesus meeting set up with nursing, hospital, and law enforcement leadership expressing concern(read; disdain) for the event. More importantly, how this situation will be handled in the future.

As of Friday, the new policy is that if law enforcement requests a blood sample, they are to be immediately referred to the house supervisor, which will take the enforcement officer off of the unit. Anyone caring for patients directly will not have to deal with this directly anymore.

That's not to say everything's good.

I'd like to know why the house sup wasn't down there immediately, and why security wasn't stopping the officer until the house sup gave the ok. The state of confusion allowed this to progress well further than it needed to. I'm pretty ashamed that it got to the point of putting a Charge nurse in cuffs over what is, at the very basic level, an attempted (and then successful) HIPAA violation.

 

[♪alt13]

Interesting thought. Have numbers?

The best number that I can think of is drug use. Self reporting indicates that whites and blacks use drugs at similar rates but the number of arrests and convictions for blacks is much higher than it is for whites. If we were to look at just police statistics we would have the false impression that blacks use drugs at a rate 4 to 10 times more than whites.

Beyond that if I am jumped I may not report it if the law enforcement in my neighborhood is insufficient. Snitches get stitches. I may not report a rape or domestic violence if law enforcement is inadequate, incompetent, or just ineffective. So better law enforcement may make society safer but may lead to increased reporting so that even if there are fewer incidents there are more incidents recorded.

I think a similar thing happens when you increase the number of officers. Add an officer and you add a crime detection instrument to the system. Let's say a city adds an officer. The first night he catches a kid tagging something. Had he not been there it likely would have just sat there until it was painted over and there would have been no crime tallied. Since the officer was there he arrested the kid and charged him with vandalism.

Honestly, I don't even know where I could find data that had not been impacted by law enforcement with which I could make a comparison. Maybe there is some way to reliably correct for law enforcement in crime data but I don't see how.

 

[Siro]

The best number that I can think of is drug use. Self reporting indicates that whites and blacks use drugs at similar rates but the number of arrests and convictions for blacks is much higher than it is for whites. If we were to look at just police statistics we would have the false impression that blacks use drugs at a rate 4 to 10 times more than whites.

Beyond that if I am jumped I may not report it if the law enforcement in my neighborhood is insufficient. Snitches get stitches. I may not report a rape or domestic violence if law enforcement is inadequate, incompetent, or just ineffective. So better law enforcement may make society safer but may lead to increased reporting so that even if there are fewer incidents there are more incidents recorded.

I think a similar thing happens when you increase the number of officers. Add an officer and you add a crime detection instrument to the system. Let's say a city adds an officer. The first night he catches a kid tagging something. Had he not been there it likely would have just sat there until it was painted over and there would have been no crime tallied. Since the officer was there he arrested the kid and charged him with vandalism.

Honestly, I don't even know where I could find data that had not been impacted by law enforcement with which I could make a comparison. Maybe there is some way to reliably correct for law enforcement in crime data but I don't see how.

I'm not sure about that. An often cited example is NYC in 90s, where the police surge caused an instant multiple % drop in crime (altho some will obviously dispute the causality). It also makes sense that more watchful eyes means less crime. If they assigned a policeman to watch every person 24/7, I bet there would be less crime.

Note that I am not advocating any particular stance. Nor am I inclined to discuss the broken window law enforcement hypothesis, as data is limited, and so is my knowledge of the finer points of the subject.

I was asking if you have evidence that SLC was getting safer, despite higher crime numbers.

 

[♪alt13]

I'm not sure about that. An often cited example is NYC in 90s, where the police surge caused an instant multiple % drop in crime (altho some will obviously dispute the causality). It also makes sense that more watchful eyes means less crime. If they assigned a policeman to watch every person 24/7, I bet there would be less crime.

Note that I am not advocating any particular stance. Nor am I inclined to discuss the broken window law enforcement hypothesis, as data is limited, and so is my knowledge of the finer points of the subject.

I was asking if you have evidence that SLC was getting safer, despite higher crime numbers.

No I do not. I hear about the crime rates going up as I have watched the city improve and calm over the last 15 years. Even over the last 5 it has cooled off with the exception of Rio Grande.