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Quin asked if there is total buy-in from the team, Rudy Gay spat

Quin won the battle when he got DL fired. It is not particularly healthy if the coach and GM aren't on speaking terms. Now we have a new GM who has the owner's ear. I think Quin realizes his time might be short.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think he's a good coach. I think his voice has gone stale. I don't think he's a top tier coach... I think we very well might end up with a worse coach if we fired him but that doesn't mean you don't make a change.

When guys aren't playing hard or aren't executing your scheme then a ton of that falls back on the coach. Quin seems to think saying "you know what to do, so do it" is the answer. He is either failing to communicate, failing to motivate, or not understanding that his personnel can't do what he's asking.

It is hilarious how insulated he is. Andy Larsen is the only media member that we have that would ask a hard question or a follow up. Hilarious that a "buy-in" question is what sets him off... its a super fair question.

There are also the rumblings that Quin can't bench player X or ask player Y to be better on defense or he will lose them... Huh? Then ****ing lose them because they will be lost either way... just letting it play out over and over isn't working either. Then his tolerance for young player mistakes is like zero... those guys are actually learning this stuff... maybe let them breathe a little and the guys who "know what to do" can ride the bench since they aren't doing something they know they are supposed to do.

We are headed for a first round exit and a total **** storm.
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As far as your first statement, that's why I'm 100% in favor of an offense for defense trade. Not only is there a lot of history to suggest that we'd be just fine on offense, but I feel pretty confident that this current version of the Jazz cannot win. So there's not a huge fear to me that we get worse, because the current state is not worth preserving in the first place. Personally, I would move players before Quin. Quin has had strong performing defenses in the playoffs when he had better defenders. OTOH, I don't think there's a single coach that can save this roster's defense purely through tactics. Playing harder would definitely change things, but I don't think our players didn't play hard enough in the playoffs. That may be the issue now, but in the playoffs the issue was primarily that they weren't talented enough defenders. A more versatile and adaptable coach would obviously go a long way, but I do think defensive personnel is a bigger issue than Quin's inability to make a defensive adjustment.

I get that people want the coach to say what they personally feel about the team. People want to "call out" players and vocalize that they're playing like ****. But this isn't a movie. I don't think that happens as much as people think it does in the real world, and I don't see why it's the most productive thing to say in the media either. I have zero problems with Quin saying that nothing is wrong and that they've just got to keep improving. I've been that guy who desperately wants a coach/player to say what I'm feeling about the team. And I think that's valid as a fan.....but taking a step back do I really have an expectation for a coach to make a "call out" or whatever to the media? Not really lol.

And it's not like he doesn't already do this. He called out several things just in the last interview. But people are going to stick on that "everything is going to be ok" media fluff because it's annoying.
 
KqWIN said:
As far as your first statement, that's why I'm 100% in favor of an offense for defense trade. Not only is there a lot of history to suggest that we'd be just fine on offense, but I feel pretty confident that this current version of the Jazz cannot win. So there's not a huge fear to me that we get worse, because the current state is not worth preserving in the first place. Personally, I would move players before Quin. Quin has had strong performing defenses in the playoffs when he had better defenders. OTOH, I don't think there's a single coach that can save this roster's defense purely through tactics. Playing harder would definitely change things, but I don't think our players didn't play hard enough in the playoffs. That may be the issue now, but in the playoffs the issue was primarily that they weren't talented enough defenders. A more versatile and adaptable coach would obviously go a long way, but I do think defensive personnel is a bigger issue than Quin's inability to make a defensive adjustment.

I get that people want the coach to say what they personally feel about the team. People want to "call out" players and vocalize that they're playing like ****. But this isn't a movie. I don't think that happens as much as people think it does in the real world, and I don't see why it's the most productive thing to say in the media either. I have zero problems with Quin saying that nothing is wrong and that they've just got to keep improving. I've been that guy who desperately wants a coach/player to say what I'm feeling about the team. And I think that's valid as a fan.....but taking a step back do I really have an expectation for a coach to make a "call out" or whatever to the media? Not really lol.
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They can't do it all the time obviously but they need to do it. It doesn't have to be media stuff... I'm actually not a fan of that style. There are ways to do it though. The two guys you mentioned - Lue and Malone are good at this. Malone will get on his guys and isn't shy about it. Lue will bench his guys and also isn't afraid to pull a guy out of the rotation because they need something different. He isn't afraid to "lose" a guy.

He keeps talking about the players holding each other accountable.... cool but he could also say "it's on me to hold the guys accountable". Or something to the effect of "if guys can't stay focused and execute we need to give other guys opportunities to do so". Can't keep saying guys didn't play hard and didn't stay focused... we will do it later... nothing to see here.

Its the same with the refs. There is a balance between arguing and constant whining. There are times when I feel like Quin needs to lose his **** on the refs... Players might be more willing to move on to the next play if they know the coach has their back. They might also feed into that bad energy so its a two edged sword I guess.

I just feel like its time for the tough love. We've had enough Ted Lasso... its time for Led Tasso.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
They can't do it all the time obviously but they need to do it. It doesn't have to be media stuff... I'm actually not a fan of that style. There are ways to do it though. The two guys you mentioned - Lue and Malone are good at this. Malone will get on his guys and isn't shy about it. Lue will bench his guys and also isn't afraid to pull a guy out of the rotation because they need something different. He isn't afraid to "lose" a guy.

He keeps talking about the players holding each other accountable.... cool but he could also say "it's on me to hold the guys accountable". Or something to the effect of "if guys can't stay focused and execute we need to give other guys opportunities to do so". Can't keep saying guys didn't play hard and didn't stay focused... we will do it later... nothing to see here.

Its the same with the refs. There is a balance between arguing and constant whining. There are times when I feel like Quin needs to lose his **** on the refs... Players might be more willing to move on to the next play if they know the coach has their back. They might also feed into that bad energy so its a two edged sword I guess.

I just feel like its time for the tough love. We've had enough Ted Lasso... its time for Led Tasso.
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I am totally not a media guy. I understand why fans clamor for this stuff. Watching games can cause emotions and you want them to validated, that's part of being a fan. But I don't really care what he says to the media. If I had to guess, the best thing a coach can say to the media is nothing bomb after nothing bomb. That's how I take these things. I don't love the idea of a coach using media to try and manipulate his players. If my manager did that to me at my job, I would think they are a legitimate psychopath and a horrible communicator. I just can't imagine being a player and having a coach who is unable to get his point across in person and has to do it by playing some kind of media song and dance.

And like I said, it's not like Quin doesn't do this anyways. In the last interview he praised Conley for spilling his guts and also "called out" Whiteside for not being able to manage his emotions. He acknowledged that we're missing our two best players, but also said that should have zero impact on how we should compete. What else do you want him to do, call out Bogey for shooting like **** because he has a broken finger. IDK all that stuff....There are ups and downs during the season and this covid wave + injuries on top of that was always going to be a tough spot. I don't think you really keep the team together by saying they played like **** while completely overmatched. Quin is also one of those coaches who will be critical when the Win's are coming through. Just my perspective, but I think having a coach who is more even keeled than the average fan is probably a good thing.

I also hate complaining to refs of all kinds. I get it, you think a call went the wrong way. You want the coach to go berserk because it will validate your feelings. And maybe there's a positive human element to having your player's back. But I think the Jazz complain wayyyy to much already and it is a persistent problem. The best thing Quin can do here IMO is go back to the no complain rule. Focus on the things you can control. Would be easier to watch the games for me personally because I cannot stand whiners.
 
The complaining about calls this year is reaching stupid proportion, but not because the players are being ridiculous about it, but rather because of how often they are right compared to previous years. The new "rule" changes have made it so refs almost call the game randomly. Many times there are hits that would have been fouls under the old rules, and frankly probably should be fouls under the new rules, but it goes uncalled. Then they call a ticky tack foul on a rip through move they supposedly are trying to crack down on. Then they allow an offensive player to just run someone over with no call. Then they have a guy get slightly bumped by the offensive player and flop and call the foul. Then they have a guy go down hard with barely a touch by the other player and the guy gets kicked out of the game. Then they have another guy with his feet swept out from under him and they either call a common foul or even no foul at all. The nearly random nature of the officiating this year has teams flummoxed, they don't know how to respond. So we are seeing a lot more of the frustration coming through in complaining, but oddly enough, it is justified much more than in previous years due to this year's wildly inconsistent officiating.
 
It is incredibly common for winning teams to replace their coach on their way to being championship teams. Casey out, Nurse in; Walton out (was winning before Lebron’s injury), Vogel in; Blatt out, Lue in; Jackson out, Kerr in. There are of course several other examples going back over the years (Heat and Riley, Lakers and Phil Jackson x2).

For other teams it took a few years after a coaching change to win titles, but they still fired winning coaches: Mavs fired Avery after he took them to the finals and hired Carlisle who won a few years later. The Bucks did the same with firing Kidd and hiring Bud.

In fact I think the Spurs and Heat are really the only teams in recent history to win a title with a coach tenured more than 5 years.
 
What is the whole Rudy gay spat thing about?
 
fishonjazz said:
What is the whole Rudy gay spat thing about?
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There was no spat. Fans are desperately looking for drama. There’s a video on Twitter of Gay raising his arms up in the air in disgust while walking to the bench. Presumably in Quinn’s direction. And Jazz fans think it’s world war 3.

These are grown men with emotions and they’ve lost a bunch of games. Of course there are going to be heated discussions.
 
JFFR said:
There was no spat. Fans are desperately looking for drama. There’s a video on Twitter of Gay raising his arms up in the air in disgust while walking to the bench. Presumably in Quinn’s direction. And Jazz fans think it’s world war 3.

These are grown men with emotions and they’ve lost a bunch of games. Of course there are going to be heated discussions.
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FWIW-If you read the comments the guy recording states that this was the tail end and the spat was much worse than what this showed. Another person said they were right there and agreed it appeared bad.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Quin gave a rousing speech after the game though... where he told them they know what to do and they should do it.

Sometimes you just need a guy that will tell you that you are playing like ******* and if you come at him he will literally fight you... and probably win. RIP
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Nope, can’t imagine Snyder getting in Malone’s or anybody else’s face for that matter.
 
KqWIN said:
I am totally not a media guy. I understand why fans clamor for this stuff. Watching games can cause emotions and you want them to validated, that's part of being a fan. But I don't really care what he says to the media. If I had to guess, the best thing a coach can say to the media is nothing bomb after nothing bomb. That's how I take these things. I don't love the idea of a coach using media to try and manipulate his players. If my manager did that to me at my job, I would think they are a legitimate psychopath and a horrible communicator. I just can't imagine being a player and having a coach who is unable to get his point across in person and has to do it by playing some kind of media song and dance.

And like I said, it's not like Quin doesn't do this anyways. In the last interview he praised Conley for spilling his guts and also "called out" Whiteside for not being able to manage his emotions. He acknowledged that we're missing our two best players, but also said that should have zero impact on how we should compete. What else do you want him to do, call out Bogey for shooting like **** because he has a broken finger. IDK all that stuff....There are ups and downs during the season and this covid wave + injuries on top of that was always going to be a tough spot. I don't think you really keep the team together by saying they played like **** while completely overmatched. Quin is also one of those coaches who will be critical when the Win's are coming through. Just my perspective, but I think having a coach who is more even keeled than the average fan is probably a good thing.

I also hate complaining to refs of all kinds. I get it, you think a call went the wrong way. You want the coach to go berserk because it will validate your feelings. And maybe there's a positive human element to having your player's back. But I think the Jazz complain wayyyy to much already and it is a persistent problem. The best thing Quin can do here IMO is go back to the no complain rule. Focus on the things you can control. Would be easier to watch the games for me personally because I cannot stand whiners.
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I hate the complaining too... especially when you are supposed to be getting back. I have had enough interactions with sports and officials to know that complaining works... selling calls works... do they change their call... hell no. But you can setup the next call or put some fear in them. If it goes too far like Cousins then it works against you. But I promise you there are refs that don't want to call fouls against Patrick Beverly... that don't want to hear it from CP... and I really believe they get a better whistle than most guys. Screw up a call and you'll hear from Pop or Kerr. If the coach does it the hope is the player doesn't have to pay as much attention to it.

Anytime someone stands up for you it feels good. Losing your **** on the refs every know and again shows your guys you are willing to go to bat for them. Especially with all these call up refs I think you could really work them. Its likely a very small thing... but it just demonstrates to me that Quin can be a little soft.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I hate the complaining too... especially when you are supposed to be getting back. I have had enough interactions with sports and officials to know that complaining works... selling calls works... do they change their call... hell no. But you can setup the next call or put some fear in them. If it goes too far like Cousins then it works against you. But I promise you there are refs that don't want to call fouls against Patrick Beverly... that don't want to hear it from CP... and I really believe they get a better whistle than most guys. Screw up a call and you'll hear from Pop or Kerr. If the coach does it the hope is the player doesn't have to pay as much attention to it.

Anytime someone stands up for you it feels good. Losing your **** on the refs every know and again shows your guys you are willing to go to bat for them. Especially with all these call up refs I think you could really work them. Its likely a very small thing... but it just demonstrates to me that Quin can be a little soft.
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If it were up to me, there would be zero complaining from anyone. I think the players/coaches that complain all the time are being soft. The Jazz have a big problem with this already and I think the coach reinforcing the problem by complaining himself only makes it work. More than anything, this team needs to look inward. Whenever someone brings refs into the equation that comes off as soft as **** to me. You may think those guys get a better whistle, many others think they get a terrible whistle because of their annoyingness. CP3 vs Scott Foster is a well known beef, almost as legendary as Kane vs Quin. It goes both ways and I seriously don't care about the perfect amount of complaining for peak performance.

This is all minor and kinda goes back to my initial point. This stuff is all for the fans. Media, whining to the refs....it's about validating our feelings. If we're going to fire Quin, it can't be because he doesn't complain enough or he doesn't bone his players' partners like he did at Missouri. There are so many more valid reasons to question his job security. It's so silly. Here we have a thread talking about how Quin is soft and not holding his players accountable when he directly did that multiple times in the same media session and had a verbal spat with one of his players.
 
LogGrad98 said:
The complaining about calls this year is reaching stupid proportion, but not because the players are being ridiculous about it, but rather because of how often they are right compared to previous years. The new "rule" changes have made it so refs almost call the game randomly. Many times there are hits that would have been fouls under the old rules, and frankly probably should be fouls under the new rules, but it goes uncalled. Then they call a ticky tack foul on a rip through move they supposedly are trying to crack down on. Then they allow an offensive player to just run someone over with no call. Then they have a guy get slightly bumped by the offensive player and flop and call the foul. Then they have a guy go down hard with barely a touch by the other player and the guy gets kicked out of the game. Then they have another guy with his feet swept out from under him and they either call a common foul or even no foul at all. The nearly random nature of the officiating this year has teams flummoxed, they don't know how to respond. So we are seeing a lot more of the frustration coming through in complaining, but oddly enough, it is justified much more than in previous years due to this year's wildly inconsistent officiating.
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Rudy gets ****ing mauled.

Sent from my SM-G986U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
KqWIN said:
If it were up to me, there would be zero complaining from anyone. I think the players/coaches that complain all the time are being soft. The Jazz have a big problem with this already and I think the coach reinforcing the problem by complaining himself only makes it work. More than anything, this team needs to look inward. Whenever someone brings refs into the equation that comes off as soft as **** to me. You may think those guys get a better whistle, many others think they get a terrible whistle because of their annoyingness. CP3 vs Scott Foster is a well known beef, almost as legendary as Kane vs Quin. It goes both ways and I seriously don't care about the perfect amount of complaining for peak performance.

This is all minor and kinda goes back to my initial point. This stuff is all for the fans. Media, whining to the refs....it's about validating our feelings. If we're going to fire Quin, it can't be because he doesn't complain enough or he doesn't bone his players' partners like he did at Missouri. There are so many more valid reasons to question his job security. It's so silly. Here we have a thread talking about how Quin is soft and not holding his players accountable when he directly did that multiple times in the same media session and had a verbal spat with one of his players.
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Saying the players need to figure it out is not the same as holding them accountable. When I tell my kids to clean their room and they don’t simply saying it again isn’t holding them accountable. Benching guys or having some other consequence is warranted in some situations. Telling JC to chill with his shot selection… lighting a guy up behind the scenes… it’s not all for show for the fans. People are motivated by different things… and motivation is part of the gig. Can’t be an unreasonable task master but also can’t be a pushover.

We have a leadership problem… part of that is Quin… obviously part is on the players.
 
I just don’t see the guy that wears 15 bracelets as the tough guy that can hold the players accountable.
 
Release the Kraken said:
Nope, can’t imagine Snyder getting in Malone’s or anybody else’s face for that matter.
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Sloan would get into Malone’s face and yell at him. I specifically remember reading an article where it was one of the first practices of the season toward the end of Malones career, some member of the national media was there, and Sloan got in Malone’s face for not running hard enough in a drill. Malone yelled back at him and the media man wrote that Malone was saying stuff like, “Can you believe he yelled at me??” And then 5 minutes later when he had cooled down a bit he was like, “You know what? Coach was right, I needed that….”

Sometimes coaches yell at players. It happens. Quin should have enough credibility with his players that it shouldn’t be a big deal. I’m pretty sure Gay doesn’t have a reputation for creating drama. If we see more of it, then I’ll worry.
 
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