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Quit overrating the 12 pick. It sucks.

green

green

Well-Known Member
If someone offeres Barnes, or Batum for the #12 pick, DO IT. It's a no brainer. Look at your 12 picks:

Etan Thomas
Vladimir Radmanovic
Melvin Ely
Nick Collison
Robert Swift
Yaroslav Korolev
Hilton Armstrong
Thaddeus Young
Jason Thompson
Gerald Henderson
Xavier Henry
Alec Burks
Jeremy Lamb
Steven Adams
Dario Saric


Barnes and Batum are waaaaaaayyyyy better than anyone on this list. The only ones you'd consider NOT trading for those two players are Burks and Adams and Saric.

And thats probably most likely due to the fact that we haven't seen them play enough to realize that they aren't as good as Batum or Barnes.

The 12 pick is not an asset. If we keep the pick, he will most likely join Burke in the DLeague or in Europe in 3-4 years.

Quit over-rating this crap, garbage of a pick.
 
We dont have the choice to make the trade


and


No

We will continue to rate it any way we like.

Also there have been plenty of good players chosen around this area of the draft, just because the twelfth pick has not had a lot of success does not mean good players are not available in this are of many draft, we just need to pick the right one. Malone was taken thirteenth for example, he could have easily been taken 12th. It is just superstitious logic to think that because no great players were taken 12th despite talented players being available to think none ever will.

That said I think the Jazz should consider Barnes for the pick, not sure if it is the right choice but a good discussion to have.
 
I find it interesting when we use draft position as some historical precedent that's a marker for future expectation. A more accurate assessment is to look at who has been drafted at 12 or beyond to have an idea of what kind of talent is on the board. For instance, Batum was the 25th pick; would we have a better chance landing a Batum with that draft position than with a #12?
 
Ignoring the fact that Julius Erving was taken with the 12th pick, I don't understand why you seem to have an opposition specifically to the 12th pick. Would trading down to 13th work for you? Or is that too unlucky a number? Perhaps 14th then? That one had Clyde Drexler and Tim Hardaway. Please enlighten us as to what pick numbers have the synchronicity with the universe to be considered a viable asset.
 
Siro said:
Ignoring the fact that Julius Erving was taken with the 12th pick, I don't understand why you seem to have an opposition specifically to the 12th pick. Would trading down to 13th work for you? Or is that too unlucky a number? Perhaps 14th then? That one had Clyde Drexler and Tim Hardaway. Please enlighten us as to what pick numbers have the synchronicity with the universe to be considered a viable asset.
Click to expand...


Y DiD DENIS LINSAY tred 4 twenty7th pick in 2013!.!1@!? DIDNT HE REELEYES DAT DEY AL SUK!?

Arnett Moultrie Mississippi State Miami
2011 JaJuan Johnson Purdue New Jersey
2010 Jordan Crawford Xavier New Jersey
2009 DeMarre Carroll Missouri Memphis
2008 Darrell Arthur Kansas Portland
2007 Aaron Afflalo UCLA Detroit
2006 Sergio Rodriguez Spain Portland
2005 Linas Kleiza Missouri So. Portland
2004 Sasha Vujacic Slovenia 1984 LA Lakers
2003 Kendrick Perkins Beaumont, TX HSSr. Memphis
2002 John Salmons MiamiSr. San Antonio
2001 Samuel Dalembert Seton Hall So. Philadelphia
2000 Primoz Brezec Slovenia Indiana
1999 Jumaine Jones Georgia So. Atlanta
1998 Vladimir Stepania Ljubljana Seattle
1997 Jacque Vaughn Kansas Utah
1996 Brian Evans Indiana Orlando
1995 Mario Bennett Arizona State Phoenix
1994 Brooks Thompson Oklahoma State Orlando
1993 Malcolm Mackey Georgia Tech Phoenix
1992 Byron Houston Oklahoma State Chicago
1991 Pete Chilcutt North Carolina Sacramento
1990 Elden Campbell Clemson LA Lakers
1989 Kenny Battle Illinois Detroit
1988 Shelton Jones St. John's San Antonio
1987 Nate Blackwell Temple San Antonio
1986 Dennis Rodman SE Oklahoma State Detroit
1985 Dwayne McClain Villanova Indiana
1984 Ron Anderson Fresno State Cleveland
1983 John Garris BostonCollege Cleveland
1982 Fred Roberts Brigham Young Milwaukee
1981 Howard Wood Tennessee Utah
 
dalamon said:
Y DiD DENIS LINSAY tred 4 twenty7th pick in 2013!.!1@!? DIDNT HE REELEYES DAT DEY AL SUK!?

Arnett Moultrie Mississippi State Miami
2011 JaJuan Johnson Purdue New Jersey
2010 Jordan Crawford Xavier New Jersey
2009 DeMarre Carroll Missouri Memphis
2008 Darrell Arthur Kansas Portland
2007 Aaron Afflalo UCLA Detroit
2006 Sergio Rodriguez Spain Portland
2005 Linas Kleiza Missouri So. Portland
2004 Sasha Vujacic Slovenia 1984 LA Lakers
2003 Kendrick Perkins Beaumont, TX HSSr. Memphis
2002 John Salmons MiamiSr. San Antonio
2001 Samuel Dalembert Seton Hall So. Philadelphia
2000 Primoz Brezec Slovenia Indiana
1999 Jumaine Jones Georgia So. Atlanta
1998 Vladimir Stepania Ljubljana Seattle
1997 Jacque Vaughn Kansas Utah
1996 Brian Evans Indiana Orlando
1995 Mario Bennett Arizona State Phoenix
1994 Brooks Thompson Oklahoma State Orlando
1993 Malcolm Mackey Georgia Tech Phoenix
1992 Byron Houston Oklahoma State Chicago
1991 Pete Chilcutt North Carolina Sacramento
1990 Elden Campbell Clemson LA Lakers
1989 Kenny Battle Illinois Detroit
1988 Shelton Jones St. John's San Antonio
1987 Nate Blackwell Temple San Antonio
1986 Dennis Rodman SE Oklahoma State Detroit
1985 Dwayne McClain Villanova Indiana
1984 Ron Anderson Fresno State Cleveland
1983 John Garris BostonCollege Cleveland
1982 Fred Roberts Brigham Young Milwaukee
1981 Howard Wood Tennessee Utah
Click to expand...

It is foolish. I mean 27 isn't even a prime number!
 
The draft can definitely be a crapshoot, but if you can find a good player, the advantages are monumental compared to trading for a player with a MUCH bigger salary and on a short deal. The salary cap makes it mandatory for teams to find cheap talent, and the best way to do that is through the draft.
 
Green, don't you know there is injustice in the world that you should be devoting yourself to?

But seriously, on June 25th the Jazz will have the #1 overall pick. We're in it to win it bitches!
 
Howard said:
You're overrating Barnes quite a bit, and rating Batum on what he has been, instead of what he currently is.
Click to expand...

Agree, and contract situations need to be taken into account, which greeny seems to ignore. If Utah can find the right deal, I have no problem trading the pick this year. However, this attitude of dumping the pick because it's trash, let alone for a short term player at a position we already have filled adequately, is short-sighted and nutty.
 
Do you know what the following names have in common:

Joe Smith
Purvis Ellison
Mark Workman
Andy Tonkovich
Bill McGill
Kwame Brown
Kent Benson
Michael Olowokandi
Greg Oden
LaRue Martin

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, they were all #1 NBA draft picks and they all sucked. If we win the lottery we should trade the pick if we are offered anything better than a bag of chips, because as you can clearly see, sometimes the #1 pick does not work out.
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
Agree, and contract situations need to be taken into account, which greeny seems to ignore. If Utah can find the right deal, I have no problem trading the pick this year. However, this attitude of dumping the pick because it's trash, let alone for a short term player at a position we already have filled adequately, is short-sighted and nutty.
Click to expand...

What a freakishly freaking good post.
 
Siro said:
Ignoring the fact that Julius Erving was taken with the 12th pick, I don't understand why you seem to have an opposition specifically to the 12th pick. Would trading down to 13th work for you? Or is that too unlucky a number? Perhaps 14th then? That one had Clyde Drexler and Tim Hardaway. Please enlighten us as to what pick numbers have the synchronicity with the universe to be considered a viable asset.
Click to expand...

13 is unlucky for the Hornets - who drafted Kobe and foolishly traded him to the Lakers.
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
Agree, and contract situations need to be taken into account, which greeny seems to ignore. If Utah can find the right deal, I have no problem trading the pick this year. However, this attitude of dumping the pick because it's trash, let alone for a short term player at a position we already have filled adequately, is short-sighted and nutty.
Click to expand...

When did I ignore this? Please, show me when I ignored contracts and said Utah should trade the 12 pick just to trade it. I've said I would move it for two things right now:

Barnes or Batum.

Those are no brainer moves.

So, cappy, show me where I said to dump it for trash.

Show me where I said to dump it for a position we already have adequately filled. And remember, right now we have Hayward at the three and no other proven starting wing. Burks and Hood COULD be that guy, but both have spent a lot of time hurt and neither has shown they can be a starter for 82 games. So, I guess you were correct that our SG and SF positions are adequate, but they aren't filled or secure, not by any stretch of the means.

Also, as far as short term, yeah, Batum could be short term. Barnes isn't short term. We would hold his restricted FA, which means it would be a 5+ year deal for him. Not short term at all. In fact, the very definition of long term in today's NBA.
 
infection said:
I find it interesting when we use draft position as some historical precedent that's a marker for future expectation. A more accurate assessment is to look at who has been drafted at 12 or beyond to have an idea of what kind of talent is on the board. For instance, Batum was the 25th pick; would we have a better chance landing a Batum with that draft position than with a #12?
Click to expand...

I'd be willing to be that if you look at #12 and beyond, the chance of successful drafting goes way down. It would make my point even more.

Nice try.
 
Siro said:
Ignoring the fact that Julius Erving was taken with the 12th pick, I don't understand why you seem to have an opposition specifically to the 12th pick. Would trading down to 13th work for you? Or is that too unlucky a number? Perhaps 14th then? That one had Clyde Drexler and Tim Hardaway. Please enlighten us as to what pick numbers have the synchronicity with the universe to be considered a viable asset.
Click to expand...

And Malone, Stockton, Parker, Leonard, AK, etc were all taken after the 12th pick. The CHANCES you draft one of those guys at 12 is slim to none. IF you can trade #12 for Barnes, you do it. No brainer. You don't keep #12 for a minuscule chance the guy you pick becomes Barnes.
 
dalamon said:
Y DiD DENIS LINSAY tred 4 twenty7th pick in 2013!.!1@!? DIDNT HE REELEYES DAT DEY AL SUK!?

Arnett Moultrie Mississippi State Miami
2011 JaJuan Johnson Purdue New Jersey
2010 Jordan Crawford Xavier New Jersey
2009 DeMarre Carroll Missouri Memphis
2008 Darrell Arthur Kansas Portland
2007 Aaron Afflalo UCLA Detroit
2006 Sergio Rodriguez Spain Portland
2005 Linas Kleiza Missouri So. Portland
2004 Sasha Vujacic Slovenia 1984 LA Lakers
2003 Kendrick Perkins Beaumont, TX HSSr. Memphis
2002 John Salmons MiamiSr. San Antonio
2001 Samuel Dalembert Seton Hall So. Philadelphia
2000 Primoz Brezec Slovenia Indiana
1999 Jumaine Jones Georgia So. Atlanta
1998 Vladimir Stepania Ljubljana Seattle
1997 Jacque Vaughn Kansas Utah
1996 Brian Evans Indiana Orlando
1995 Mario Bennett Arizona State Phoenix
1994 Brooks Thompson Oklahoma State Orlando
1993 Malcolm Mackey Georgia Tech Phoenix
1992 Byron Houston Oklahoma State Chicago
1991 Pete Chilcutt North Carolina Sacramento
1990 Elden Campbell Clemson LA Lakers
1989 Kenny Battle Illinois Detroit
1988 Shelton Jones St. John's San Antonio
1987 Nate Blackwell Temple San Antonio
1986 Dennis Rodman SE Oklahoma State Detroit
1985 Dwayne McClain Villanova Indiana
1984 Ron Anderson Fresno State Cleveland
1983 John Garris BostonCollege Cleveland
1982 Fred Roberts Brigham Young Milwaukee
1981 Howard Wood Tennessee Utah
Click to expand...

lol.
 
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