Racism and privilege

[One Brow]

First off let me say that I agree with Bronco in that One Brow is being a total troll. I read 4 pages of this thread before the blah blah blah's set in.

That happens a lot when you don't really care about a subject, but I don't see how those two sentences are related.

I do see the persistent effects of racism in our country(most notably in the criminal justice system) but racial privilege is a step too far. I say this not because I am a white male who wishes to maintain his racial privilege, but because I am a person who thinks that blaming someones troubles on someone else's good fortune is a form of victimization.

It is not about whether it is inconvenient or destructive. Racist is 1 step below being called a momo or a wrapper(trying to filter and get my point across{hard}) so don't throw it out there unless you're positive the person has earned the title.

As came up long after you stopped reading (according to your testimony), we use the word "racism" to describe all people, most of whom have of good intentions, and yet, because they are human and therefore process thoughts in a brain made of meat, act with discrimination. To be racist is not be be separate from most of society, but to be a part of it.

Rich kids have privileges I never had, but someone having more privilege than I in no way can ruin my life. There are disadvantages that racial minorities have to deal with that white people do not, but that is not a privilege. It is simply the lack of a hard ship.
i.e. Who is more privileged the black rich kid or the poor white one. The black child will have to deal with prejudice that the white child will not , but has the support to help him/her be successful in life.

Lack of hardships imposed by others *is* a privilege. Comparing the size of different privileges seems pointless.

You are so full of yourself it makes me want to vomit. Your vocabulary does not make you right. It means you have a large vocabulary. stfu

I've never claimed to be right because of my vocabulary or word choice.

 

[One Brow]

So if someone is going to consider that to imply that I have a special privilege that others may not have, so be it. I still don't understand just exactly what all the fuss is about here.

Sometimes I wonder that, as well. Everyone wants to acknowledge there is a problem, as long as they don't have to admit they share in the problem.

 

[One Brow]

You've been gone for weeks and you go straight to the old racism threads.

Just one. I had those quotes just sitting around in a file, and felt it would be a waste to not use them.

 

[Stoked]

Sometimes I wonder that, as well. Everyone wants to acknowledge there is a problem, as long as they don't have to admit they share in the problem.

If that is all you have gotten from this thread then you have been looking at it with very tinted glasses.

 

[Stoked]

Just one. I had those quotes just sitting around in a file, and felt it would be a waste to not use them.

I have not seen you post in weeks. Guess I just missed the posts. Either way I am glad you are back.

 

[One Brow]

If that is all you have gotten from this thread then you have been looking at it with very tinted glasses.

I agree that this implication is sound.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Entitlement and accountability are more of an issue, which include every race.

Thinking something is owed to you because of "blablabla" and always having someone or something to blame because something did not go your way and you didn't get what you want.

Lets turn this into something basketball related. Stockton rarely complained about calls, he would just purse his lips and get to work. Danny Ainge on the other hand was also a good player but was wronged by every whistle blown his direction. How many fans appreciate the whining to refs over the buckle down and get it done attitude Stockton showed?

Maybe it's just in my face more, but I see/hear much more of the whining to refs out there in the world than the buckle down and make things happen attitude. I find those that do not complain even if they have a reason to, and find them to be extraordinary people. It also seems that they seem to make their good luck and good things eventually happen for them.

If you focus on the negative, you will find it.
If you focus on the good, you will also find it.

The surest way to fix problems is to not dwell on the problem, and not to tell other people how to act... but to show other people how to act and to promote the solution every day in who you are.

It's very similar to the trick where a friend says to you " Don't think about ice cream"... and you end up thinking about ice cream.

/rant

So, let me see if I understand. If we don't talk about racism, it'll go away? If we stop complaining about racism or other social injustices and simply act appropriately, it will solve the problem?

I suspect you don't really mean to oversimplify it like this, but I'm guessing that if someone in the civil rights trenches, as it were, read this, they would only marvel at the extraordinary naiveté found therein.

 

[Stoked]

So, let me see if I understand. If we don't talk about racism, it'll go away? If we stop complaining about racism or other social injustices and simply act appropriately, it will solve the problem?

I suspect you don't really mean to oversimplify it like this, but I'm guessing that if someone in the civil rights trenches, as it were, read this, they would only marvel at the extraordinary naiveté found therein.

That is an over simplification of what was said. You completely ignored the part where he talks about being an example instead of a squeaky wheel.

 

[One Brow]

That is an over simplification of what was said. You completely ignored the part where he talks about being an example instead of a squeaky wheel.

Which point in no way diminishes the naivete to which jimmy eat jazz referred. People scarcely notice example of solutions to problems when they are unaware of the problem itself.

 

[Stoked]

Which point in no way diminishes the naivete to which jimmy eat jazz referred. People scarcely notice example of solutions to problems when they are unaware of the problem itself.

In no way has Spazz showed he is naive to the problem of racism.

The main difference I see between are sides on this specific detail of racism is one side is talking about the goal and one is talking about mondern day application. Two very different things and aspects.

Racism is an evil that should be expunged from our society and the world. However isn't the goal of that to be a world where your race is no longer relevant to any important decisions?

Where if you apply for a job, college, assistance or anything else your race is never even mentioned or recorded as it is completely irrelevant? Is that not the goal? To be looked at for who you are inside and not what you look like? To where it is no longer justification or an excuse?

Edit: Keep in mind I am in no way saying hide who you are or where you come from. That should be, and rightfully so, a point of pride for everyone. Every story is unique and valued.

 

[One Brow]

Racism is an evil that should be expunged from our society and the world. However isn't the goal of that to be a world where your race is no longer relevant to any important decisions?

Where if you apply for a job, college, assistance or anything else your race is never even mentioned or recorded as it is completely irrelevant? Is that not the goal? To be looked at for who you are inside and not what you look like? To where it is no longer justification or an excuse?

That's an ideal. At least for now, it's not a realistic goal. Goals need to be something achievable.

 

[Stoked]

That's an ideal. At least for now, it's not a realistic goal. Goals need to be something achievable.

But is it naive as is being portrayed. It is the goal. The difficulty has yet to be debated.

So what would you see as the goal on the problem of racism? Political correctness?

Many of the steps that have been taken to correct that do not correct it. All they do is shift who suffers from it as a result and in no way alleviate the problem at all. All I see is shuffling it around.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

That is an over simplification of what was said. You completely ignored the part where he talks about being an example instead of a squeaky wheel.

No I did not. Being an example is far, far from being a sufficient condition for ending racism and other civil/human rights abuses. There absolutely HAS to be squeaky wheels for change to occur. I guarantee that the racists in the South during civil rights movement would not have, say, integrated schools just because people in the North kept their mouths shut and just set a good example. It required activists who were active in bringing issues to the public consciousness, highlighting the deplorable conditions, and advocating loudly (if peacefully) for change.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

In no way has Spazz showed he is naive to the problem of racism.

I don't know wether he is or not. I can only judge from what he says, and his post to which I refer was chock full of simplistic, naive wishful type thinking, at least in my view. I admit I haven't carefully read the rest of the thread, so if he has said other things that give greater depth and nuance to this one post, then I apologize. By God oh God, was that one post a doozy.

 

[Stoked]

No I did not. Being an example is far, far from being a sufficient condition for ending racism and other civil/human rights abuses. There absolutely HAS to be squeaky wheels for change to occur. I guarantee that the racists in the South during civil rights movement would not have, say, integrated schools just because people in the North kept their mouths shut and just set a good example. It required activists who were active in bringing issues to the public consciousness, highlighting the deplorable conditions, and advocating loudly (if peacefully) for change.

If you did not ignore it you did not address it. So for the purposes of this discussion you did.

 

[Stoked]

I don't know wether he is or not. I can only judge from what he says, and his post to which I refer was chock full of simplistic, naive wishful type thinking, at least in my view. I admit I haven't carefully read the rest of the thread, so if he has said other things that give greater depth and nuance to this one post, then I apologize. By God oh God, was that one post a doozy.

I still maintain that you are reading it in a light that it is not attempting to portray. But fair enough.

 

[LogGrad98]

So from the state we are in right now in America, assuming we are on our way to the idealized goal that stoked articulated, what is the "next step"? There is a lot said about racism right now, I hear it every single day in some form or another. We had one of our facilities fire someone for using the "n" word recently, apparently in a rather benign context, as much as it could be, yet we have people of color using it on their break and even on the work floor and it tends to get overlooked, as it is "their" word. Political correctness has become a caricature and is no longer viewed as a serious issue as a result, imo. I think a major issue right now is the activists do not know where to focus their efforts. It seems to be a shotgun approach that is really stagnating. There used to be more precise points of focus: segregation, employment, schooling, etc. But largely those are diminishing as focal points, as they should if we are truly engaged in getting rid of this issue, but it makes it so that now it seems the message gets muddled easily. Yes there is still work to be done in those arenas, but the gap has narrowed enough that it has taken the edge off at least, and softened the rallying cry.

So what is the next step? What does the next phase of the battle for civil rights look like? Where do we need to focus our efforts? It seems to me that spazz is advocating a "it starts with each of us individually" stance, which is valid, but that jimmy and OB want more sweeping large-scale change, equally valid, and that starting with the individual isn't good enough. So where does it need to go, what is the intermediate goal if it is pointless to focus on the ideal goal?

 

[NUMBERICA]

We had one of our facilities fire someone for using the "n" word recently, apparently in a rather benign context, as much as it could be, yet we have people of color using it on their break and even on the work floor and it tends to get overlooked, as it is "their" word.

Being white is hard.

 

[NUMBERICA]

 

[NUMBERICA]

How about this; white people just shouldn't wear blackface under any circumstance or use the "n" word because we/they get a lot of other nicer and more important advantages. Is this really that difficult of a concept?