What's new
By:

Radical islamists killing atheists now..

fishonjazz said:
Don't you think that if you blow up your own buildings, throw acid on girls for going to school, not allow your women any rights, and use such strict rules that don't allow for any outside the box thinking or creativity all in the name of religion that maybe it might have an affect on the poor living conditions you find yourself in?
Click to expand...

you didnt answer my question
 
Siro said:
Precisely. Islam is more resistant to adaptation. Look at "secular" Muslim countries like Syria.
Click to expand...

Muslim-majority countries certainly have shown to be more secular than their Christian counterparts through extensive parts of history. Again, using a relatively short period of history to paint the entire population of a faith's followers is inaccurate. Islam will be practiced theocratically in the Middle East as long as the desire for oil is maintained.


GVC said:
Which raises what should be the key question(s) in this discussion: Is the dogma/culture of Islam less amenable to secularization than other large world religions? Why or why not?

Neither side has attempted to answer that question in this thread.
Click to expand...


I think I have. History shows that Muslim societies can certainly reconcile secularism with their faith. Of course, in a time where religious-nationalism is being used to assert power across vast desolate regions in the world, this wont be the case. Especially as long as many world powers dont really want it to be toppled anytime soon.
 
Jamezz said:
There are gonna be big issues with muslims in Europe along the road.
Click to expand...

lol. Ya. Just like those 'issues' that the massive Turkish population has raised in Germany since the fall of the Ottoman empire.
 
MVP said:
I think you are really wrong on this one. Lets dig up some data by deaths and compare. How did Islam spread from Saudi Arabia through Africa and Asia? By peaceful education and convincing other nonbelievers? You must be kidding yourself if you believe it.
Click to expand...

I'm not wrong. Read a book. Nothing Islam has ever done will ever compare to the Spanish Inquisition, really. Aside from maybe this recent ISIS problem if it continues to permanence.
 
Siro said:
One big problem is the existence of Hadith, and how entrenched it is in Muslim culture. Throughout history, any ruler who wanted to make up a "doctrinal" point would come up with a supposed ruling by Prophet Mohammad to support his claim. So we ended up with 10s of thousands of doctrines that can be used to justify whatever the hell one wants. And given the nature of those who created Hadiths, one cannot be surprised that many of them can be extremely backward and harmful. For example, the entirety of Sharia laws comes from Hadith.

And it isn't like you can safely challenge those doctrines. A couple of years ago, I mentioned the unreliability of Hadith to a relative in a discussion about religion, and we almost came to blows. It is just too deeply entrenched in the the culture.
Click to expand...

I do think this can be reformed. And I do meet more and more young people (myself included) who find the hadiths ridiculous. But again, while these voices will be strong, they will only have merit in a region ready for regime change. There is no ****ing way that it'll happen so long as Saudi exists-- a role in which the US has a strong desire to maintain, unfortunately. No one seems to want to tackle this ugly truth. No one seems to want to realize how much of the perpetuation of terrorism is due to US action.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MVP
YOu have simply got to love how much the US condemns Iran, and speaks publically regarding its inhumanity-- yet they stay mum in terms fo voicing displeasure with a country that is quite honestly far, far worse. I would MUCH rather live in Iran than Saudi. 100 times over. Even as a non-Muslim.
 
dalamon said:
you didnt answer my question
Click to expand...
Apparently you didn't ask a very clear concise question or I would have. I don't dodge questions.
 
dalamon said:
YOu have simply got to love how much the US condemns Iran, and speaks publically regarding its inhumanity-- yet they stay mum in terms fo voicing displeasure with a country that is quite honestly far, far worse. I would MUCH rather live in Iran than Saudi. 100 times over. Even as a non-Muslim.
Click to expand...

While I agree with you, I don't see how the US is to blame. The Saudi people are often more radical than their government. They have been a radicalizing force since before the US started interfering with the region.
 
Siro said:
While I agree with you, I don't see how the US is to blame. The Saudi people are often more radical than their government. They have been a radicalizing force since before the US started interfering with the region.
Click to expand...

and then you'd have colonialism before then. But still, in today's age, the disadvantages of Saudi despotism should be very obvious to their populace. Why havent they progressed? What is holding them back? How have they become so powerful? What role has the US played in them maintaining their power?

How in the ****ing world is anyone in Saudi supposed to wage a political revolt? There probably isnt a single other country in the world where this would be less successful. Is some of the blood on America's hands? Answer is, frankly, yes. A lot of it.
 
Saudi's shahs are insurmountable. The US likes it that way, it's quite obvious. Yemeni people are being killed with US weapons, by Saudi.


NO ONE gives a ****.
 
dalamon said:
I'm not wrong. Read a book. Nothing Islam has ever done will ever compare to the Spanish Inquisition, really. Aside from maybe this recent ISIS problem if it continues to permanence.
Click to expand...

ISIS has already claimed more than twice as many victims as the Spanish Inquisition. By the time this is over, it will be FAR FAR worse. And I'm not counting the hundreds of thousands of people they displaced, which is comparable to Spain's entire population of the time.
 
dalamon said:
Very unclear, and not concise
Click to expand...
I don't understand the question.
Are your asking me if I think that the Muslim religion is only appealing to, or practiced in poor places?

If so, that is an incredibly dumb question.

There are muslims all over the place so of course not. I don't see how that matters.

Do you think that the the way the muslim religion is practiced by people in the middle east helps to advance those countries and bring them out of the poverty, turmoil, and predicaments they find themselves in?
 
dalamon said:
and then you'd have colonialism before then. But still, in today's age, the disadvantages of Saudi despotism should be very obvious to their populace. Why havent they progressed? What is holding them back? How have they become so powerful? What role has the US played in them maintaining their power?

How in the ****ing world is anyone in Saudi supposed to wage a political revolt? There probably isnt a single other country in the world where this would be less successful. Is some of the blood on America's hands? Answer is, frankly, yes. A lot of it.
Click to expand...

Like I said, there is no serious movement toward reform within the Saudi populace. Large percentage of them are are in support of current Islamist movement, and many of them risk their lives to support terror groups. And they were never colonized by Europe, which is a vapid excuse anyway. Everyone was colonized at one point or another, and yet, terror comes from a specific group of people.
 
fishonjazz said:
I don't understand the question.
Are your asking me if I think that the Muslim religion is only appealing to, or practiced in poor places?

If so, that is an incredibly dumb question.

There are muslims all over the place so of course not. I don't see how that matters.

Do you think that the the way the muslim religion is practiced by people in the middle east helps to advance those countries and bring them out of the poverty, turmoil, and predicaments they find themselves in?
Click to expand...

Of course not! But I think that the way those regions practice their Islam is reflective of the environment that they were born and raised in. THAT's what I'm getting at. There are Muslims everywhere, and through history, that have practiced their faith peacefully, personally, and have not stepped on the rights of others. This is because they live in socially, politically, and/or economically prosperous areas. This USED to be the Middle East centuries ago, which is why no other region on Earth was kinder to religious minorities.

Of course my interpretation of Islam doesnt encompass terrorism. Neither do the strong, strong majority of Muslims. Those that do, do so due to very intricate, nuanced sociopolitical factors. Think Iraq. Think Palestine. These are the conversations that need to be had. What are the societal factors leading to terrorism? Blaming it on the faith gets us NO where.
 
Siro said:
ISIS has already claimed more than twice as many victims as the Spanish Inquisition. By the time this is over, it will be FAR FAR worse. And I'm not counting the hundreds of thousands of people they displaced, which is comparable to Spain's entire population of the time.
Click to expand...

Yes, but how many of them are religious minorities? Inquisition was waged specifically against religious minorities-- and it was permanent. Still exceeds ISIS on those two fronts.
 
I don't think anyone is saying that all Muslims are bad or that the Muslim religion as a whole is bad.

I thought the thread title says right in it "radical islamists" so I figured that is what we are discussing.
 
Siro said:
Like I said, there is no serious movement toward reform within the Saudi populace. Large percentage of them are are in support of current Islamist movement, and many of them risk their lives to support terror groups.
Click to expand...

Well no **** they're supportive. Do they have a choice? Vast majority of North Korea is supportive of their communist regime. Those who risk their lives do so for the sake of personal interests. Again, this support will dwindle once the region is prevented from being flooded with Oil money
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top