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Raul Nieto

Why will Lindsey be gone if we don't get Parker or Wiggins? I don't think it was even a consideration in the rebuild. This team, with the core of Favors, Kanter, Hayward and Burks (and adding Burke) should have never been CLOSE to the bottom. Utah has underperformed (particularly Hayward) and had some injuries. That's what has ensured Utah will finish in the bottom-10. Utah had the talent to win 30-35 games - and should have won that many (they still could, BTW).


I think when DL pitched the idea of a rebuild to KOC and the Millers it was on the basis of getting a lottery pick - and likely late lottery. There were just too many teams that were going to be WAY worse. Given everything we know about the Jazz culture, it still amazes me to think there are some still clinging to the notion that the Jazz were going to "tank" and lose games on purpose.
 
I think you guys are way too premature giving up on Burke.

First of all, this talk about him being slow is nonsense. Yeah, he's not the fastest PG in the league from Point A to Point B, but he's plenty quick enough to play PG and he has a quick burst on his second gear. BTW. there was a tiime when Devin Harris was the fastest PG in the NBA - where did that get us?

Defensively, man-to-man, he plays hard. He just gets lost in a team defensive setting; but guess what - so does this entire ****ing team.

His playmaking and decision making need plenty of work. Right now he has more balls than brains; but that's because he has an over load of guts. He'll figure it out. I think he's a starting caliber PG on a good team within 1-3 years. Not a top 5 assist guy - I'd say 17/7 is probably his ceiling.
 
candrew said:
I think you guys are way too premature giving up on Burke.
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This. Remember when the Jazz best player was the PG? Yeah they never really were contenders. You need a serviceable point guard, that's it. Someone who plays unselfishly and makes the right plays, and can take over from time to time. What you really need are dudes with big ol' ding dongs that will slash to the hoop every gd time or big ol' mf'rs that will pound the rock all night. Those guys need to be your best players. Burke is totally serviceable and is exactly what a future contender team like the jazz will need.
 
The most over-rated positions in basketball are PG and C/PF (unless you have Shaq or Duncan). If you want to win, you need a great wing.

Burke is more than good enough to win a title as a starting PG. So is Favors. Our problem is we need someone to put next to Hayward/Burks. Neither are good enough to lead us to a title.
 
Burke would be serviceable if he shot less, passed more, played faster than the league's 26th slowest pace, and could play a lick of defense.

I liked Neto because he was very fast and passed (assists aren't always indicative of passing. The SL team played a lot better when Neto was on the floor. The only quality that matters with a PG is if and how they make their team better. I'd like to see our young core w/ Neto some, and w/ Trey some, so I can contrast the two.

Our core has been good at times w/ Burke, but is that because he is the first time we've seen them w/ a real PG? Does that make him the PGOTF?



And for this notion that we never won because we had such a good PG in Stockton, I call blasphemy. I say we never won because we played in one of the most competitive eras of the NBA, and against the league's best player and team ever. That Bulls team was unreal. Gods among mortals.
 
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Sexual Favors said:
Burke would be serviceable if he shot less, passed more, played faster than the league's 26th slowest pace, and could play a lick of defense.

I liked Neto because he was very fast and passed (assists aren't always indicative of passing. The SL team played a lot better when Neto was on the floor. The only quality that matters with a PG is if and how they make their team better. I'd like to see our young core w/ Neto some, and w/ Trey some, so I can contrast the two.

Our core has been good at times w/ Burke, but is that because he is the first time we've seen them w/ a real PG? Does that make him the PGOTF?



And for this notion that we never won because we had such a good PG in Stockton, I call blasphemy. I say we never won because we played in one of the most competitive eras of the NBA, and against the league's best player and team ever. That Bulls team was unreal. Gods among mortals.
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Are you still talking about Summer league? Summer league..Summer league. Come on no one knows if Neto is an NBA player let alone a starter. Yes you can say that you think he is one but until he proves it in the NBA it is just speculation. Summer league really?

I love how many Jazz fans turn on the players because they over hype the player and if he has a few bad games they are ready to trade him. I know most fans are like that and I am sure I've done it before but Burke is a rookie who missed the beginning of a season. I think he has performed better than I expected. The Jazz have held him back and regulated him to the secondary passer. Once they get Hayward back to his real position and allow Trey to be the main PG he will pass the ball more. Right now he is more of a hybrid PG due to his role and inexperience.

On defense, he has physical limitations but I see effort most of the time. The Jazz team defense sucks -every player on this team gets lost on rotations. Part of that is coaching and part is these guys haven't played together too much. Everyone needs to realize that the Jazz are a very young team, Jazz fans are spoiled when it comes to making the playoffs. Many feel that as fans they are entitled to the playoffs.

Look at SA, they have had a core of players forever, there have been times when the fans wanted to trade Parker or Gino but the organization has always relied on consistency and team play that is why they don't make changes or get rid of players right away. I remember when Parker first came into the league, his shot wasn't great and he didn't pass that much. He used his speed to get to the basket. Imagine if they just traded him. Celtics traded Chancey Billups because he didn't show much the first few years in the league.

Now I am not comparing the two players (Parker/Burke) but if a guy is working hard he is going to improve 9/10 times. Even great college players still have to adjust to the NBA. We need to be patient and make smart moves. Yes this means that some of the young guys might eventually go. However, I would rather give up on a guy who has a longer track record than a player who has been in the league one year. Think about all our young guys - none of them played that well when they came in the league. I think Burke can be a start PG on a championship team simply because he has one thing - Moxy - guy has steel balls - he outperforms most down the stretch and he isn't afraid to take the last shot. He is already the guy I want to have the ball in his hands down the stretch.
 
Cowhide, I was going to do a piece by piece answer to your post, but it is so not worth it. In essence, your reply is off base. Please reread my post if you need clarification.

I don't hate Burke, I just want to see Neto.

Summer league was mentioned for Neto, not for Burke. Summer League is the only time I've seen Neto with NBA-esque players.

Point of my post: the jury is still out on who PGOTF will be. Could be Burke. Could be Neto. Could be someone else.
 
Sexual Favors said:
Cowhide, I was going to do a piece by piece answer to your post, but it is so not worth it. In essence, your reply is off base. Please reread my post if you need clarification.

I don't hate Burke, I just want to see Neto.

Summer league was mentioned for Neto, not for Burke. Summer League is the only time I've seen Neto with NBA-esque players.

Point of my post: the jury is still out on who PGOTF will be. Could be Burke. Could be Neto. Could be someone else.
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I think you need to reread my post. I never said you hated Burke. I know you were talking about summer league for Neto. I was making fun of the fact that many Neto fans are basing it on summer league. I never said anything about Burke's summer league. I agree with your point no position is secure for the future. I was simply stating that it was too early to judge Burke simply on what he has done this year. That was might point. I wasn't one of the fans on the Burke Bandwagon but I have been pleasantly surprised overall. Of course I think he needs to pass more but i think I gave a reasonable explanation of why his assist numbers aren't as high as we both would like. There are other reasons like being a rookie, adjusting to nba and learning the plays and teammates.

So we are not far away from each other's opinion, I was just making fun of how every was using summer league as a legitimate gage on how a player will play in the NBA. I think both Burke and Neto are NBA players. I still think Neto has to prove he is one and if he can become a starter. For the future I hope both can be solid players because that only helps the team.
 
Sexual Favors said:
Burke would be serviceable if he shot less, passed more, played faster than the league's 26th slowest pace, and could play a lick of defense.

I liked Neto because he was very fast and passed (assists aren't always indicative of passing. The SL team played a lot better when Neto was on the floor. The only quality that matters with a PG is if and how they make their team better. I'd like to see our young core w/ Neto some, and w/ Trey some, so I can contrast the two.

Our core has been good at times w/ Burke, but is that because he is the first time we've seen them w/ a real PG? Does that make him the PGOTF?



And for this notion that we never won because we had such a good PG in Stockton, I call blasphemy. I say we never won because we played in one of the most competitive eras of the NBA, and against the league's best player and team ever. That Bulls team was unreal. Gods among mortals.
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A lot of your criticism of Trey makes me wonder about your basketball acumen. Blaming him for the current pace of the team? They falls squarely on the HC. If Neto played the same role that Burke does in Corbin's system the odds are you would be saying the same thing about him probably worse as Neto doesn't appear to be a great perimeter shooter. If you turn a player into a spot up shooter and the majority of the time he's getting the ball late in the shot clock that players is going to almost always have to shoot the ball in order to get at least a decent shot off.

Criticizing his defense is fair game. However I mentioned this to you before. Go back and look at the games when Burke was the primary ball handler the majority of those games and you'll see Burke does a great job setting up teammates. I think Neto could be a nice PG in the league, but I don't know what the Trey bashing is all about.
 
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da ThRONe said:
A lot of your criticism of Trey makes me wonder about your basketball acumen. Blaming him for the current pace of the team? They falls squarely on the HC. If Neto played the same role that Burke does in Corbin's system the odds are you would be saying the same thing about him probably worse as Neto doesn't appear to be a great perimeter shooter. If you turn a player into a spot up shooter and the majority of the time he's getting the ball late in the shot clock that players is going to almost always have to shoot the ball in order to get at least a decent shot off.

Criticizing his defense is fair game. However I mentioned this to you before. Go back and look at the games when Burke was the primary ball handler the majority of those games and you'll see Burke does a great job setting up teammates. I think Neto could be a nice PG in the league, but I don't what the Trey bashing is all about.
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Not Trey bashing. Just saying I want to see Neto.

Our pace has a lot to do with Trey. I dislike Corbin as much as the next, but to his credit, he has been trying to get Trey to push the ball faster up court all year, but yet he still walks it up. We drafted a half court PG.

Trey has good playmaking and facilitating skills, but he doesn't always use them. There have been many games where Trey was the main ball handler, and he still sought his shot before others. I'm hard on the kid for this because it is something he could fix.

Again, I don't think Neto is better, but I want to see him so I can contrast the 2.

You Trey homers keep coming out of the woodwork and act like I'm saying something I'm not. Don't be so sensitive. The kid's a rookie, he'll get better. I point out things he should work on because this is a discussion forum.


Also, Hayward running the pint has been to detriment of the team, and Gordon's shooting percentage, but it's been a necessity because of Trey's inconstancy at distributing. I don't think Corbin is playing Hayward as the main distributor because he thinks it is so effective, but because it is more effective than Trey at the NBA level to this point. Is it the right thing? No! Burke should be the distributor so he can develop. Jazz need to allow their youngins to struggle.
 
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Well Neto isn't coming over in the next 9 games so you can want in one hand and **** in the other and all you'll have is a hand full of ****.
 
Not sensitive, I actually don't like Trey. There's no reason to torture yourself clamoring for Neto when there is 0 chance he's coming until July
 
Trey plays horribleble dfense. He doesn't shoot ft's like ever. He should be able to improve both(with the right guidance). Mostly happy with TB but I do think Neto is intriguing. That crossover in summer league, pretty.
 
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