Reading the Tea Leaves

[Dr. Jones]

I may make this a several part post so as not to lose the attention of those that don't like reading posts with multiple sentences.

Anyway, call it more of a gut feel, but I am getting a feel for who stays, who goes, what we do in the draft, trades, and FA.
Wow.. we have a brazillian options in front of us.

So I'm going to skip to the very end and over the coming days will explain why I feel the way I do.

Who stays;
Burke
Hayward
Rush
Kanter
Gobert
Harris

Favors and Burks get traded.
Between those trades, the available cap space/FA, and the draft, we pick up;
1) veteran stud PG (trade or FA)
2) defensive center (gsw pick netting Embiid or WCS - or from trade/FA)
3) A versatile scoring forward with our own pick (Randle or Parker)

Ty fired toward end of season or off season.

I know this post will be replied to with much vitriol.. it's okay. I have thick skin.. say what you mean and let's have some healthy debate and figure this out. Then we can look back and see how well we, collectively, saw the strategy.
(Again, I'll defend my thoughts as to how I arrived at the above predictions shortly.)

 

[Bawse Dawg]

So we keep Burke, but also go after a stud pg (who by the way?)? Does this mean you see Burke as a career backup?

Good thread idea btw.

 

[gomretat]

The Jazz are not going to trade Favors unless they decide in one season he can't defend the post. Kanter will have to have help inside defending and rebounding so I don't see that happening. The real issue is whether they see GH as a number 1 or 2 option or if they get themselves in a position to draft one of the great wings in the draft. GH could be let go in some scenarios based upon what he wants in salary. I do agree that the young core we have will need to be split up at some point just based upon salary cap.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

What about Asik? But I have a hard time taking Asik over Favors......

 

[Dr. Jones]

So we keep Burke, but also go after a stud pg (who by the way?)? Does this mean you see Burke as a career backup?

Good thread idea btw.

I see needing a great PG next year to emerge from the tank and keep the fans from getting to restless. Burke isn't quite ready for that role yet, imo. Also, with all the options at our disposal, and regardless our record this year, I see a real possibility of us being very good next year.. depending upon what moves we make, obvi.

 

[Dr. Jones]

The Jazz are not going to trade Favors unless they decide in one season he can't defend the post. Kanter will have to have help inside defending and rebounding so I don't see that happening. The real issue is whether they see GH as a number 1 or 2 option or if they get themselves in a position to draft one of the great wings in the draft. GH could be let go in some scenarios based upon what he wants in salary. I do agree that the young core we have will need to be split up at some point just based upon salary cap.

I suspect the FO may see getting a similar player in someone like Embiid et al for less money. He has to be bringing it with consistency, at the very least, if he's to be a fairly one-dimensional player.

 

[Dr. Jones]

What about Asik? But I have a hard time taking Asik over Favors......

Too slow. We need a long athletic big with real upside and fire, imo. There are two of those in the draft and also a possibility of trades+assets or FA.

 

[orangello]

I can't disagree with anything you have said so far (apart from giving Corbin most of the season, he needs to go now).

For me the most disappointing players have been Favors and Burks but for completely opposite reasons.

Where is the fire Favors? There have been couple of games where he really makes a quick decision that he wants to be a threat offensively and everytime he does he looks good. I saw that a couple of times last night but then he went back to coasting. Hayward and Kanter are having a hard time carrying the offensive load.

Burks needs to stop forcing things. I think the idea of him coming off the bench has backfired on the team. It's almost like he believes that he has to do everything and that has caused the most ridiculous TO's and forced shots. He is not really playing within the team when he is out there. The first game of the season has been a bit of a curse because Burks believes that he can do that every game but he has not been able to duplicate that success.


My last thought is that there is a real chance the players have quit on Corbin. Can you blame them? The track record is not great and instead of it getting better it seems to get worse. I watch each game with the hope that a team identity shows up and I just don't see it. That is not a player problem, that is a coaching problem.

For the record, I have no problem with losses. I knew it was coming and I can handle it. What I can't handle is the lack of effort, identity and progression. Again, those things are on the players but the coaches don't seem to be anything to correct it.

 

[bjunior]

Burks needs to stop forcing things. I think the idea of him coming off the bench has backfired on the team. It's almost like he believes that he has to do everything and that has caused the most ridiculous TO's and forced shots. He is not really playing within the team when he is out there. The first game of the season has been a bit of a curse because Burks believes that he can do that every game but he has not been able to duplicate that success.

1. dude finally get some minutes, so the level of happiness exceeds
2. bad coaching

 

[Sexual Favors]

I may make this a several part post so as not to lose the attention of those that don't like reading posts with multiple sentences.

Anyway, call it more of a gut feel, but I am getting a feel for who stays, who goes, what we do in the draft, trades, and FA.
Wow.. we have a brazillian options in front of us.

So I'm going to skip to the very end and over the coming days will explain why I feel the way I do.

Who stays;
Burke
Hayward
Rush
Kanter
Gobert
Harris

Favors and Burks get traded.
Between those trades, the available cap space/FA, and the draft, we pick up;
1) veteran stud PG (trade or FA)
2) defensive center (gsw pick netting Embiid or WCS - or from trade/FA)
3) A versatile scoring forward with our own pick (Randle or Parker)

Ty fired toward end of season or off season.

I know this post will be replied to with much vitriol.. it's okay. I have thick skin.. say what you mean and let's have some healthy debate and figure this out. Then we can look back and see how well we, collectively, saw the strategy.
(Again, I'll defend my thoughts as to how I arrived at the above predictions shortly.)

I actually like

Could stud pg be Rondo, please?

 

[orangello]

I actually like

Ditto.


Let's be honest, if Gobert can add a little more size and strength (so he is not pushed around so easily) then we would want him playing 30 or so minutes a night. Also, Gobert is the only TRUE center that the Jazz have on the roster.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I actually like

Could stud pg be Rondo, please?

Would love to oblige.

 

[trigg3r]

I may make this a several part post so as not to lose the attention of those that don't like reading posts with multiple sentences.

Anyway, call it more of a gut feel, but I am getting a feel for who stays, who goes, what we do in the draft, trades, and FA.
Wow.. we have a brazillian options in front of us.

So I'm going to skip to the very end and over the coming days will explain why I feel the way I do.

Who stays;
Burke
Hayward
Rush
Kanter
Gobert
Harris

Favors and Burks get traded.
Between those trades, the available cap space/FA, and the draft, we pick up;
1) veteran stud PG (trade or FA)
2) defensive center (gsw pick netting Embiid or WCS - or from trade/FA)
3) A versatile scoring forward with our own pick (Randle or Parker)

Ty fired toward end of season or off season.

I know this post will be replied to with much vitriol.. it's okay. I have thick skin.. say what you mean and let's have some healthy debate and figure this out. Then we can look back and see how well we, collectively, saw the strategy.
(Again, I'll defend my thoughts as to how I arrived at the above predictions shortly.)

The bolded is really the only thing I disagree with. Not for the reason you might think though. Lindsey said something about Gail Miller loving Favors prior to them extending him. He said it kind of put him in a bit of a bind when he went to the table with Favors' agent. I think that Gail and even Greggy Boy will step in and halt any trade involving Favors unless Lindsey was blowing smoke up our *** when talking about that. Personally, I hope that Lindsey has all the authority necessary regarding basketball decisions. I am just not sure he does.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Ditto.


Let's be honest, if Gobert can add a little more size and strength (so he is not pushed around so easily) then we would want him playing 30 or so minutes a night. Also, Gobert is the only TRUE center that the Jazz have on the roster.

Also watch how dominant Embiid is by end of his freshman season... reminds me of Hakeem.

 

[Dr. Jones]

The bolded is really the only thing I disagree with. Not for the reason you might think though. Lindsey said something about Gail Miller loving Favors prior to them extending him. He said it kind of put him in a bit of a bind when he went to the table with Favors' agent. I think that Gail and even Greggy Boy will step in and halt any trade involving Favors unless Lindsey was blowing smoke up our *** when talking about that. Personally, I hope that Lindsey has all the authority necessary regarding basketball decisions. I am just not sure he does.

I'm not anti-Favors.... this has nothing to do with that.. but if Dennis has to deal with who the Miller's "like" we're in trouble.

 

[trigg3r]

I'm not anti-Favors.... this has nothing to do with that.. but if Dennis has to deal with who the Miller's "like" we're in trouble.

I agree. I hope if that moment comes, the Miller family will stay out of it. I hope they don't pull a LHM.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Ok ill play, but keep in mind I'm a noob.

I think we have our front-court of the future. And it would take massive regression for the FO to give up on Favors, especially in a tanking year with no PG. basically if he's not on the opening day roster next year it's because we amnestied him, because no one would even take his contract, he would have to be that bad IMO.

I'm not in the 'we need a PG' camp yet. I dont think we need an elite Rose, Westbrook, Rondo type PG. we need someone who: Can run the offense, run the pick and roll, get the ball to the bigs in the post, and keep defenses honest on the perimeter. Obviously we don't know of Burke can do that. But he should be able too. 14 and 8 for his career is perfectly acceptable numbers on this team. If he can do that, I say we keep him.

What we need is a number 1 scoring threat, and a lights out shooter. No reason to think we can't get that in a loaded draft and free agency year.

Burke
Hayward
2014 draft pick
Kanter
Favors

Gobert third big, Burks sixth man, Rush and FA/GS draft pick, shooters.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Ok ill play, but keep in mind I'm a noob.

I think we have our front-court of the future. And it would take massive regression for the FO to give up on Favors, especially in a tanking year with no PG. basically if he's not on the opening day roster next year it's because we amnestied him, because no one would even take his contract, he would have to be that bad IMO.

I'm not in the 'we need a PG' camp yet. I dont think we need an elite Rose, Westbrook, Rondo type PG. we need someone who: Can run the offense, run the pick and roll, get the ball to the bigs in the post, and keep defenses honest on the perimeter. Obviously we don't know of Burke can do that. But he should be able too. 14 and 8 for his career is perfectly acceptable numbers on this team. If he can do that, I say we keep him.

What we need is a number 1 scoring threat, and a lights out shooter. No reason to think we can't get that in a loaded draft and free agency year.

Burke
Hayward
2014 draft pick
Kanter
Favors

Gobert third big, Burks sixth man, Rush and FA/GS draft pick, shooters.

Good post.

Only thing I'll say re: Burke is I think we need an experienced PG (that's also very good) to run the team. That's not a reflection on Burke's ability to run the team, just high on my wish list to have a real leader on this team that the young guys trust completely.. especially absent a coach.

So what position would you target using the GSW pick and, more importantly, your FA cash?

 

[davidbenoit]

My more conservative 2 cents:

Burks is the only one with the potential to get traded. The jazz value consistency (and now defense) more than most teams and won't trade a defensive minded Favors and his now reasonable contract. I even see a Hayward sign and trade more likely than a Favors trade.

The core is intact. If any trade is going to happen it's going to be through continued asset collection (picks) and filler sent to teams looking to rebuild.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Good post.

Only thing I'll say re: Burke is I think we need an experienced PG (that's also very good) to run the team. That's not a reflection on Burke's ability to run the team, just high on my wish list to have a real leader on this team that the young guys trust completely.. especially absent a coach.

So what position would you target using the GSW pick and, more importantly, your FA cash?

I think we need a coach who can just teach the players the fundamentals of the game. Favors attacking the rim, Burks not making boneheaded passes, Kanter boxing out, etc.

Burke led his team to a national championship, so I actually think that from a pure leadership role he'll be fine. Tutoring the players I'll leave up to coaching.

I'm on my IPod, at work. So can't really comment on FA's without a list in front of me. But I just asked a question in the draft thread, whoever that player is, is who I want with the GS pick.

I would spend most of our cap space on keeping the team together.