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Reasons you left the LDS church.

Neg repped for being ignorant.

I don't even know what that means but here is what I got it from. (Really neg repped me for being black but scapegoats me)

And [God] had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. And thus saith the Lord God; I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities." (2 Nephi 5:21)

I am asking questions :/

Also isn't it True that for over a hundred years Blacks couldn't be priests?

Edit also Joseph Smith Quote " Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization." (as recorded in History of the Church, Volume 5, p. 216))
 
Is it true or not true that LDS members believe that people from Israel came to the Americas and have done some sinful things and got red skin as punishment becoming Native Americans.

Now we're getting someplace... asking what others believe is always better than telling them what they believe.

In this case, the Book of Mormon teaches that a group of Israelites came to the Americas around 600 B.C. and settled there. (It also teaches about an earlier group who migrated from the Old World to the New World, but that's a minor part of the book.) It teaches that the people split into two main groups shortly thereafter, and that one of the groups had a darker skin than the other. That's about it, as far as where you're coming from. Specifically, the Book of Mormon does not teach that no other people existed in the Americas. It doesn't teach that all Native Americans are descended only from Israelites. And it certainly doesn't teach that reddish hued skin is a punishment from God.

If you find one Native American who has DNA evidence from Israel, I am sure that many many people would be willing to convert to Mormonism, if it is only one tribe or group are they gone now? Why isn't there a larger effort to find this tribe then, because every single tribe studied so far has Asian descent.

I think most LDS scientists would probably believe that the group from Israel intermingled with other natives living there, which caused the "Israelite DNA" to be diluted or perhaps even lost. If you really care about this, here's a link you can read for an LDS chemist's perspective:
https://www.jefflindsay.com/bme13.shtml

Is it true or not true that dark skin is a curse by god.

Not.
 
The bible quotes Jesus "I have come not to bring peace but the sword" also it quotes Jesus in Luke 19 verse 27 Bring people who don't believe in me and slaughter them in front of me.

Fortunately we believe that parts of the Bible are symbolic. If the Bible taught that Jesus had actually had people bring unbelievers to him to be slaughtered, well then your point would be much more significant.

Also I hear the LDS church doesn't like black people as in they are cursed by God and God hasn't yet lifted that curse.

I don't know any LDS at all who have that view, although there were probably some before 1978. Prior to that time there was a policy against ordaining black men to the priesthood (for whatever reason, could be the subject of another thread), and so some church members likely believed that blacks were suffering from a curse, or some other thing like that, and used that belief to justify the church's policy.
 
Edit also Joseph Smith Quote " Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization." (as recorded in History of the Church, Volume 5, p. 216))

In other words, Joseph Smith taught that the slaves should be freed, and that they should be able to set up their own communities because the white people were oppressing them so terribly.

Here's the full quote, of which you are just taking the last line:
Elder Hyde inquired about the situation of the negro. I replied, they came into the world slaves mentally and physically. Change their situation with the whites, and they would be like them. They have souls, and are subjects of salvation. Go into Cincinnati or any city, and find an educated negro, who rides in his carriage, and you will see a man who has risen by the powers of his own mind to his exalted state of respectability. The slaves in Washington are more refined than many in high places, and the black boys will take the shine of many of those they brush and wait on.
Elder Hyde remarked, "Put them on the level, and they will rise above me." I replied, if I raised you to be my equal, and then attempted to oppress you, would you not be indignant and try to rise above me, as did Oliver Cowdery, Peter Whitmer, and many others, who said I was a fallen Prophet, and they were capable of leading the people, although I never attempted to oppress them, but had always been lifting them up? Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_early_Mormonism
 
so some church members likely believed that blacks were suffering from a curse, or some other thing like that, and used that belief to justify the church's policy.
Like that black people were less valiant followers of Christ in the pre-existence?
 
also Joseph Smith Quote " Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization." (as recorded in History of the Church, Volume 5, p. 216))

Joseph Smith, especially in the last several years of his life, was adamantly, and very publicly, anti-slavery (this was a controversial topic of the time, and it would have been in his best interest, politically speaking, to not take a position, let alone a strong one). Also, during his administration, blacks were church members and priesthood holders. Subsequent leaders were responsible for the disconnect of blacks from the priesthood, and to be quite honest, I have no idea what the reasoning was. But blaming JS is more barking up the wrong tree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_early_Mormonism

The Church never denied membership based on race (although slaves had to have their master's permission to be baptized), and several black men were ordained to the priesthood during Joseph Smith's lifetime. The first known black Latter-day Saint was "Black Pete", who joined the Church in Kirtland, Ohio, and there is some evidence that he held the LDS priesthood.[2] Other African Americans, including Elijah Abel in 1832, Joseph T. Ball in 1835 or 1836 (who also presided over the Boston Branch from 1844–1845), and Walker Lewis in 1843 (and probably his son, Enoch Lovejoy Lewis), were ordained to the priesthood during Smith's lifetime.[3] William McCary was ordained in Nauvoo in 1846 by Apostle Orson Hyde.[4] Two of the descendants of Elijah Abel were also ordained Elders, and two other black men, Samuel Chambers and Edward Leggroan, were ordained Deacons.[5]
Early black members in the Church were admitted to the temple in Kirtland, Ohio, where Elijah Abel received the ritual of washing and anointing (see Journal of Zebedee Coltrin). Abel also participated in at least two baptisms for the dead in Nauvoo, Illinois, as did Elder Joseph T. Ball.
 
Jesus and Moses(PBU both of them) are both mentioned in the Quran more then Muhammad (PBUH). Mulims basically believe that for the first 300-400 years Christianity was correct but then started worshipping Jesus. Muhammad (PBUH), according to us, came and said that was wrong and stressed that Allah has no equals, no trinity or anything like that. That is one of the very few differences between Christianity and Islam basically. We believe in the Virgin birth. We don't believe that God bestowed Mary. He is the son of God in the sense that everyone in this world is the son of god. According to us, Christians say that Jesus is special because he has no father besides God. Then using this isn't Adam better in that he didn't have a mother or a father?

Also, Islam gives equal blame to Adam and Eve and doesn't say that it was only Eve's fault and women are the originators of Sin.(Side rant)
 
This is new to me. I thought they only thought of him as a prophet. He's a Messiah just not Islam's Messiah?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_of_Jesus

First paragraph of article (I know, Wikipedia isn't necessarily the most accurate of sources all the time, but it'll suffice):
In Islam, Jesus (Arabic: عيسى‎ ʿĪsā) is considered to be a Messenger of God and the Masih (Messiah) who was sent to guide the Children of Israel (banī isrā'īl) with a new scripture, the Injīl or Gospel.[1] The belief in Jesus (and all other messengers of God) is required in Islam, and a requirement of being a Muslim. The Qur'an mentions Jesus twenty-five times, more often, by name, than Muhammad.[2][3] It states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result of virginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (Arabic: Allah). To aid in his ministry to the Jewish people, Jesus was given the ability to perform miracles (such as healing the blind, bringing dead people back to life, etc.), all by the permission of God rather than of his own power. According to the popular opinion and Muslim traditions, Jesus was not crucified but instead, he was raised up by God unto the heavens. This "raising" is understood to mean through bodily ascension. Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the day of judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal ("the false messiah", also known as the Antichrist).[4][5]

This always seems to startle people, with good reason I suppose.
 
Like that black people were less valiant followers of Christ in the pre-existence?

Yes, I know some LDS members had that belief. Elder Bruce McConkie was probably the most well-known such individual, based on his book Mormon Doctrine. Of course, after 1978 he also famously said "Forget everything I have said, or what...Brigham Young...or whomsoever has said...that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world."
 
What a convenient thing revelation must be. You don't even have to come up with your own excuses!
 
Yes, I know some LDS members had that belief. Elder Bruce McConkie was probably the most well-known such individual, based on his book Mormon Doctrine. Of course, after 1978 he also famously said "Forget everything I have said, or what...Brigham Young...or whomsoever has said...that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world."
I just thought it was strange that you used the word "likely", although I suppose you could argue that that condition wasn't "some other thing like" a curse.
 
Yes, I know some LDS members had that belief. Elder Bruce McConkie was probably the most well-known such individual, based on his book Mormon Doctrine. Of course, after 1978 he also famously said "Forget everything I have said, or what...Brigham Young...or whomsoever has said...that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world."

It's something difficult to deal with...

And impossible for some members to comprehend...

But even high general authorities are still people.

They still have their opinions.

Elder Faust was a Democrat. While Pres Benson was a Republican (and wasn't afraid to proclaim his staunch conservative political stances).

I'm sure some general authorities don't believe in watching the NFL on Sunday. While others watch and have no issue with it.

Mormon Doctrine, despite what many people want to believe or crititicise, is merely a book written by a church leader.

There are some good things in it. But it's not recognized as official publication such as the Book of Mormon...
 
Like that black people were less valiant followers of Christ in the pre-existence?

I remember being told that blacks were all descendants of Cain. This mark was placed upon his and his descendants flesh for killing his brother Abel.
 
You're gonna have to do more homework on that because that's not entirely true, guy.

I could probably write a book on this one. "DNA 'evidence' relies on statistical analysis much more than on observed facts." And everyone should know that "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics"(OK mods, I know the language isn't according to Hoyle, but give me some slack, it's a famous quote attempting to put statistics in the lowest category of arguments).

So here's the concise version of the situation with human genetics. In attempting to draw conclusions from genetic comparisons it is necessary first to posit some reasonable assumptions and gather some actual facts about what is already known about past populations, their locations and historical movements. The Asian land bridge hypothesis is usually drawn to fit the receding ice sheetlocations, believed to be known from geologic pollen strata and ice core drilling to be about 10000 years ago, when it is possible that a narrow land passage existed between the oceans and the ice that allowed hunting nomads to push along the thousand-miles' gap to find larger ice-free areas and game to hunt on the other side of the passage. But nobody can actually know which direction those nomads moved, from Asia to America or from America to Asia. There is accumulating evidence that people were here before that ice-free passage opened up, by 20,000 years. So far, there is not equal evidence of people living on the Siberian side in that period. There is also compelling evidence that sea peoples were sailing the Pacific coasts from Asia clear to America- or perhaps in the opposite direction--- 15000 years ago. Fact is, there are coastal island human cultural remains dating to that period which indicate a fishing economy and seafaring lifestyle.

Further evidence of European migrations around 25000 years ago link Eastern coastal site with sites in France.

The attempt to repudiate the Book of Mormon story with at least equally ignorant "science" is just useless and pointless. Internally, from the Book of Mormon, there are several migrations mentioned, at least three from Eurasia to America and at least one back across the Pacific, or into the Pacific Islands at least. One of my ancestors was perhaps the first ordained LDS missionary to the Pacific, set apart to preach while working his livelihood as a sailor for the British merchant fleet. He recorded in his journals a vivid dream, some might call it a "revelation" but it was never claimed as a revelation by the LDS Church. In his dream he was informed that the Japanese were a Nephite branch. I myself went to the Philippines as a missionary, and my experience more or less satisfied me that they were a Book of Mormon "Lamanite" remnant.

One linguist studying the Polynesian languages and Egyptian history found cognate words between Polynesian and the northern Egyptian tribes of about 300 BC. Greek words being used in Polynesia. It is historically known that the Egyptians sailed huge ocean-going ships across the Indian Ocean and mined gold in Indonesia. The whole Malayo-Polynesian set of languages stretches from Madagascar to Formosa and steles in that alphabet have been found on the American Pacific Coast.

Oh this is already too long and I haven't even discussed the statistical calculations of how human gene pools change over time. Let it be enough to just say that the ignoramuses who have tried to claim science in drawing conclusions about the Book of Mormon peoples will before another hundred years goes by be looked back on as the true idiots they are. Too many over-the-top assumptions, and gross factual errors, to prove anything.
 
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I could probably write a book on this one. "DNA 'evidence' relies on statistical analysis much more than on observed facts." And everyone should know that "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics"(OK mods, I know the language isn't according to Hoyle, but give me some slack, it's a famous quote attempting to put statistics in the lowest category of arguments).

So here's the concise version of the situation with human genetics. In attempting to draw conclusions from genetic comparisons it is necessary first to posit a reasonable assumption about what is actually known about past populations, their locations and historical movements. The Asian land bridge hypothesis usally is drawn to fit the receding ice sheetlocations, known from geologic and ice core drilling and soil tests, about 10000 years ago, when it is possible that a narrow land passage existed between the oceans and the ice that allowed hunting nomads to push along the thousand-miles gap to find larger ice-free areas and game to hunt on the American side of the passage. But nobody can actually know which direction those nomads moved, from Asia to America or from America to Asia. There is accumulating evidence that people were here before that ice-free passage opened up, by 20,000 years. There is also compelling evidence that sea peoples were sailing the Pacific coasts from Asia clear to America- or perhaps in the opposite direction--- 15000 years ago. Fact is, there are coastal island human cultural remains dating to that period which indicate a fishing economy and seafaring lifestyle.

Further evidence of European migrations around 25000 years ago link Eastern coastal site with sites in France.

The attempt to repudiate the Book of Mormon story with at least equally ignorant "science" is just useless and pointless. Internally, from the Book of Mormon, there are several migrations mentions, at least three from Eurasia to America and at least one back across the Pacific, or into the Pacific Islands at least. One of my ancestors was perhaps the first ordained LDS missionary to the Pacific, set apart to preach while working his livelihood as a sailor for the British merchant fleet. He recorded in his journals a vivid dream, some might call it a "revelation" but it was never claimed as a revelation by the LDS Church. In his dream he was informed that the Japanese were a Nephite branch. I myself went to the Philippines as a missionary, and my experience more or less satisfied my that they were a Book of Mormon "Lamanite" remnant.

One linguist studying the Polynesian languages and Egyptian history found cognate words between Polynesian and the northern Egyptian tribes of about 300 BC. Greek words being used in Polynesia. It is historically known that the Egyptians ran a huge ocean-going ships across the Indian Ocean and mined gold in Indonesia. The whole Malayo-Polynesian set of languages stretches from Madagascar to Formosa and steles in that alphabet have been found on the American Pacific Coast.

Oh this is already too long and I haven't even discussed the statistical calculations of how human gene pools change over time. Let it be enough to just say that the ignoramuses who have tried to claim science in drawing conclusions about the Book of Mormon peoples will before another hundred years goes by be looked back on as the true idiots they are. Too many over-the-top assumptions, and gross factual errors, to prove anything.

exploding-head-2.jpg
 

lol. . . .

Could just as well be almost any current scientist with his name tag attending a current seminar on this subject. . . . or you as well as me.

Just please note that a Colton-style LDS person can find acceptance within his LDS ward as a scientist, while perhaps humoring others with various other views. Thanks to an LDS scientist named Henry E. Eyring who was quite prominent in his day, winning the Priestly Medal, being the originator of the much-used Absolute Rate Theory and an innovator in applying mathematical tools in studying chemistry. Eyring influenced the LDS Church to formal withdraw from doctrinal stands not in accord with science, saying "Our religion embraces all truth". In regard to various so-called controversies posing conflicts between science and religion, perhaps as understood by folks who just didn't have the knowledge, language, or training to restrict their beliefs to incontrovertible "fact" as "established" by the perpetually-changing views of scientists of any given time, Eyring would often say he didn't know everything, and his faith did not require him to know everything, only to believe in God, who does know everything. And who hasn't told us everything yet.

The problem with religions codified by texts written thousands of years ago is the tendency, whether necessary or not, of some to feel they don't need to think any more.
 
I am part of a Legume phylogeny Lab so believe me I know about the statistics of DNA.

The thing is statistics is based on chance, however once you have this chance and extend it over the three billion base pairs that humans have in their genome... You can almost certainly take the statistics as being accurate. I know that the science community out there does, I guess it is not good enough for others... The professor makes a living by analysis such statistics. It's good enough evidence for people to make good livings studying it.

Its not just the overwhelming DNA evidence, its the overwhelming DNA evidence compounded with the fact that they share lingual similarities, and only Native Americans and East Asians have shovel-type incisors.

I don't see how you can make an argument saying that the Scientific data out there is not supporting the complete opposite of the Book of Mormon is saying... I'm not saying that the scientific evidence is not necessarily 100% proof. I'm just saying you cannot completely dismiss it because it doesn't agree with what you believe.
 
Does that embrace of all truths extend to theories that directly contradict the typical definition of creation? Evolution for an example? What percentage of Mormons in your estimate accepts evolution?
 
I am part of a Legume phylogeny Lab so believe me I know about the statistics of DNA.

The thing is statistics is based on chance, however once you have this chance and extend it over the three billion base pairs that humans have in their genome... You can almost certainly take the statistics as being accurate. I know that the science community out there does, I guess it is not good enough for others... The professor makes a living by analysis such statistics. It's good enough evidence for people to make good livings studying it.

Its not just the overwhelming DNA evidence, its the overwhelming DNA evidence compounded with the fact that they share lingual similarities, and only Native Americans and East Asians have shovel-type incisors.

I don't see how you can make an argument saying that the Scientific data out there is not supporting the complete opposite of the Book of Mormon is saying... I'm not saying that the scientific evidence is not necessarily 100% proof. I'm just saying you cannot completely dismiss it because it doesn't agree with what you believe.

But isn't this exactly what you do? Or do you have a scientific explanation for Moses parting the Red Sea?
 
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