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Reflecting on this season: what we learned....

Ferguson_Mellochill

Ferguson_Mellochill

Well-Known Member
2019 Prediction Contest Winner
I know everyone is riled up with the way the Jazz went out this season, but lets start laying out where we stand as a franchise. Lets keep it classy and use Numberica's thread to rant. To me, the team is still looking for an identity and doesn't have a balanced roster. We're somewhere in the middle of a rebuilding process and definitely need to make some moves, but the moves might not be as obvious as we might think. The front office needs to decide how aggressive they want to be from here.

Here are some of the questions we're probably going to hear David Locke and other analysts talk about:

* Does Al Jefferson have a future with this team?

* What role should Paul Millsap play in the future?

* Is Hayward ever likely to become a reliable shooter or scorer, or is he basically a slightly rich man's Thabo Sefalosha?

* Where are the Jazz's points going to come from next year?

* What one player or player type would you add to the roster as it stands now?

* Should the Jazz be willing to trade Al, Devin and Paul as part of the rebuilding process?

* Should the Jazz be willing to trade one or two of the young players?
 
To be honest, not much. Alot of the things that have happened have been vindications of our thoughts and not showing us something new. Big Al can't play D. Favors is a stud. Bell is over the hill, Howard plays for himself...
 
I think I just had an epiphany. Al Jefferson is our only player who can score right now without space being made for him, but if we traded him for a shooter who could space the floor, and if we had a PG who could pull up and shoot consistently, then everyone else would have more room to operate on offense. What was disgusting to watch tonight was the Spurs putting 4 defenders in the paint so that Millsap couldn't do anything and Favors could only try to go over the top.
 
Catchall said:
I think I just had an epiphany. Al Jefferson is our only player who can score right now without space being made for him, but if we traded him for a shooter who could space the floor, and if we had a PG who could pull up and shoot consistently, then everyone else would have more room to operate on offense. What was disgusting to watch tonight was the Spurs putting 4 defenders in the paint so that Millsap couldn't do anything and Favors could only try to go over the top.
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Is that possible? Isn't the very nature of an epiphany something that could not possibly be denied?
Agree with your maybe-epiphany, btw.
 
I'll start answering some of the questions I listed above:

First, I think Millsap has to become a back-up or get moved. Why? Because he can't be a starting PF on a contending team and because he can't create space with his jumper or slash to the hoop like a normal SF. I think he's in the same situation as Clarence Weatherspoon, Big Baby Davis, Brandon Bass, Carl Landry and other undersized PFs. Maybe he's better than they are, but unless he's going to start shooting like Paul Pierce (or at least David West) or driving like Carmello, then he doesn't really have a spot on the floor. He could be a 6th man though.
 
The Jazz should trade Al Jefferson and give Favors the message that this is his team. They need to surround Favors with a pass-first PG and at least one floor spacer who can run a pick-and-roll and deliver an entry pass. He's got the ability to score or get to the line almost every time. At the same time, he can anchor an elite defense.

He's a more imposing player at the rim than Lamarcus Aldridge on both sides of the ball. That makes him a potential All Star.
 
Hayward has a slow, methodical release and too much arch on his shot. Plus, he can't seem to shoot without getting his feet set. It's reminding me of Shane Battier. I like his defense and rebounding at the SG spot, but he can't be the only shooter on the floor if we're going to create space for Favors. So having Hayward and Millsap on the floor at the same time (see Millsap post), isn't going to work. Unless Hayward becomes better at throwing daggers, he really is a rich man's Thabo Sefalosha.
 
The points next year have to come from Favors and Kanter (when he's ready). They need to be on the floor together, and one of them needs to develop a consistent outside game to complement the other. Kanter should be given the freedom to shoot outside and develop his game away from the hoop. I think this is probably why the Jazz took Kanter over Valanciunas.
 
Jefferson needs to go (not saying he sucks entirely), he's our only valuable trade chip who's good enough to net us a good SG/SF.

We need someone who can create his own offense - like Rudy Gay or James Harden (his ability to draw fouls is uncanny). Both of them will possibly be moved in the near future - Thunder will have to make a choice to extend Harden OR Ibaka soon, and Memphis is already paying too much to Gasol/Raldolph/Conley/Gay for a team that might bounce in the first round.

Unfortunately, taking on Jefferson's salary doesn't help them with salary cap situation... so unless we give up a combination of Favors, Kanter, or Burks, this isn't going to be a feasible option.
 
Catchall said:
I think I just had an epiphany. Al Jefferson is our only player who can score right now without space being made for him, but if we traded him for a shooter who could space the floor, and if we had a PG who could pull up and shoot consistently, then everyone else would have more room to operate on offense. What was disgusting to watch tonight was the Spurs putting 4 defenders in the paint so that Millsap couldn't do anything and Favors could only try to go over the top.
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Al and the Jazz are really a terrible fit. I would like to see Jefferson on a team that had 3 good shooters and a decent defensive big man to help cover for him. He really is our only consistent half-court scorer, but the Jazz really relied on him too much, to where we used his talents as a crutch rather than an effective wrinkle in the offense.
 
DutchJazzer said:
most of spurs three pointers where with feed set, so is it a bad thing.
dont we need an offensive set that give him those shots?
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I guess I'm saying that Hayward is a spot-up shooter, not a guy who shoots well off the bounce. Ideally your shooting guard can create his own offense a bit better.
 
jazzmailman said:
Jefferson needs to go (not saying he sucks entirely), he's our only valuable trade chip who's good enough to net us a good SG/SF.

We need someone who can create his own offense - like Rudy Gay or James Harden (his ability to draw fouls is uncanny). Both of them will possibly be moved in the near future - Thunder will have to make a choice to extend Harden OR Ibaka soon, and Memphis is already paying too much to Gasol/Raldolph/Conley/Gay for a team that might bounce in the first round.

Unfortunately, taking on Jefferson's salary doesn't help them with salary cap situation... so unless we give up a combination of Favors, Kanter, or Burks, this isn't going to be a feasible option.
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I think that Al's trade value is going to be high now that he's scored over 25 pts. in a number of big games. Now is a good time to move him.
 
Devin Harris. What should we do with that guy? It seems like he's another piece who is a decent asset, but doesn't really fit. If he helped his trade value in these last two playoff games, that's a plus.
 
We learned that Corbin is a rookie coach, and needs time to become less stupid, which includes moving away from Sloans substitution beliefs and patterns. Favors is the only current player on the squad that is untouchable, although I am very high on Hayward, Burks, and Kanter as well. Millsap has a good heart, but is eternally undersized and needs to be a 6th man and it is critical for him to establish a consistent 3point shot to not only to relieve the pressure Favors will see, but to improve his own own scoring by using the only advantage he possesses; speed. Jefferson has to go, despite being the only player that consistently will score regardless of what defense is thrown at him. While being a decent shot blocker, he brings nothing else to the table except a shot buffet for the other team, especially on the pnr. Also, saying you can't win and kissing the behind of the other team, regardless how obvious that is to everyone, is inexcusable, incomprehensible, and unacceptable. How would you go to battle with someone that outwardly expresses this? Hayward, while being inconsistent, both inside and out, is still adapting to a changing body (has grown in size and height), although I am shocked at his playoff performance offensively. He is the Jazz's best individual defender, and will be a starter (borderline All-star) for 10 years. Burks, despite a donut in game 4, has the most upside on the team, and will start next year, and be the unquestioned team leader in 2014. Why? Because he believes it. Needs to gain a bit of weight, which he will. He will be an all-star perenially starting in 2014. Carrolle must be resigned because he plays with passion and intensity, and brings a bit of talent for relatively cheap. Kanter is massive, and for someone who has played as much as your average high schooler, is awesome. Learning to not bring the ball down is imperative for him moving forward. Otherwise, everything else will come as he plays and practices with the team. Harris is good, not great, and misses wat too many possible passes that could lead to scores, so he can go as far as I'm concerned. IMO, doesn't make people better, which is the #1 priority at the point. Howard (the Black Hole), and Bell (the a hole), and Miles (the stuck in a hole), need to be gone. These players either don't play a team game, or don't have the right attitude to improve a team, and their time is past. Ahearn will enjoy another stint in the D-league, and I hope Hayward can convince Evans to stick around, just because I like to watch him.
 
Catchall said:
I think that Al's trade value is going to be high now that he's scored over 25 pts. in a number of big games. Now is a good time to move him.
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I think you're right that Al's trade value is probably at the highest right now; however, i can't see anyone trading an elite wing for Jefferson (who has a big contract). But hey, you never know... there are a lot of dumb GMs in NBA.
 
I've been thinking about this a lot, and what I've learned is that a rookie coach will almost always have a tough time with veteran players, especially if they came from another team before working with that coach. Corbin fought an uphill battle and ****ed up a lot, but he tended to find himself on the right track eventually.

I hope he is learning and growing a lot because what he did this last season - in a vacuum - simply will not cut it.
 
Couple of thoughts off the top of my head:

-Favors wasn't ready to start in December. He's more than ready now, and is already one of the better team defenders in the league.
-Gordan Hayward is still an up&down player who will play brilliant some nights, disappear on others but like his rookie season finished strong in the final month (not counting the playoffs).
-Kanter has ability to be a physical rebounder and low-post scorer but still needs alot of adjusting to the speed of the game and his balance&explosion.
-Alec Burks' ability to get to the rim translated from college to the NBA.

-Al Jefferson can score against 2/3's of the league at a pretty-efficient rate. Against the other teams w/elite defense (individual and team) he's exposed. Also exposed by the Suns and Spurs who made no secret they wanted to attack him as a screen-roll defender. Productive player who puts up numbers but doesn't have the elite talent/ability to be a true difference-maker.

-Paul Millsap is a utility man, can do a little bit of everything pretty well but not great nor against every single team. Some nights he can carry you and others he can get smothered, but most of the time he's a guy who brings his lunch pail and gives you versatiliy as well as quality play at both ends. (IMO he's a keeper as well).

-Devin Harris is a shoot-first PG at his best attacking in transition (actually we knew all this before, but it seemingly took the Jazz 1/2 the season to figure that out). As with a shoot-first PG, when he's on fire, driving and stroking the 3 you're happy. When he's cold, confined to the halfcourt, or in game-management situations (like end of quarters/halves) you're in major trouble and his teammates won't be getting alot of easy baskets.

-Decision-making, strategy and game-management of our coaching staff needs to improve.
 
vslice02 said:
-Devin Harris is a shoot-first PG at his best attacking in transition (actually we knew all this before, but it seemingly took the Jazz 1/2 the season to figure that out). As with a shoot-first PG, when he's on fire, driving and stroking the 3 you're happy. When he's cold, confined to the halfcourt, or in game-management situations (like end of quarters/halves) you're in major trouble and his teammates won't be getting alot of easy baskets.
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Don't tell this to Wes Manchild who thinks a PG is a PG is a PG
 
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