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Regular Season Matters

Saint Cy of JFC

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
2022 Award Winner
2025 Award Winner
Just a little rant.

Regular season matters. Watching your team win basketball games is fun. I hate when people discount regular season success. It's annoying and defeats the purpose of why we play sports. Way too many people on this board and in NBA media do this, and it causes what we are seeing from Utah right now. A team who is playing lackadaisical because the great regular season success they just had was more or less dismissed and diminished. What's the incentive for this team to really try in the regular season? There is basically none, so why wouldn't they coast?

Regular season success shouldn't be disregarded or disrespected.
 
The regular season is not sufficient, which the team and a certain contingent of the fan base and media have conflated with it not being necessary.

It’s the right basic concept with the absolute wrong application. The idea that you’re going to magically turn it on when it matters is pretty wild, but apparently a right we’ve earned as a team, having never won more than two second-round games.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Just a little rant.

Regular season matters. Watching your team win basketball games is fun. I hate when people discount regular season success. It's annoying and defeats the purpose of why we play sports. Way too many people on this board and in NBA media do this, and it causes what we are seeing from Utah right now. A team who is playing lackadaisical because the great regular season success they just had was more or less dismissed and diminished. What's the incentive for this team to really try in the regular season? There is basically none, so why wouldn't they coast?

Regular season success shouldn't be disregarded or disrespected.
Click to expand...
Its justifiable to downplay a regular season game or two when the team plays hard regularly. Its okay to have an off night. It's also smart to manage injuries throughout the season and especially in the 6 weeks leading up to the playoffs manage minutes...

But this is spot on. If you use the regular season to add new wrinkles, experiment, or explore what young players can give you and it costs you games... no big deal. When you half-*** 7 out of 10 games and try to "get up" for the big games it doesn't work. It's not always a switch that can be flipped on. The team this year isn't respecting the game... is respecting the effort needed to win and isn't embracing the type of play necessary to win at the levels they need to. It's a lot of Quin but its also Joe coming in out of shape and not locked in... its JC being JC and Whiteside Whitesiding... its Donovan playing defense sometimes and other times not at all or chucking horrible shots at the end of the game to be the hero... its Royce either hurt or not as hungry as he used to be.

Quin is using the "play best when it matters" as an excuse. He gets up there and talks about effort and all that **** but gets pissy when a guy asks a question that might indicate he has lost the team. He has played good cop too much. My parents are divorced. My dad was a great buddy growing up... he was a huge fan... but I could do whatever the hell I wanted when I was there and my brother and I would get into some ****. It was okay cuz it was every other weekend. If he was raising me I'd be screwed up. My stepdad was an ******* and a bully, but I toed the line at home. I resent him because it didn't come from a place of love... but that fear kept me in check and was a good thing. Quin has needed to put some fear in guys a little. Not in an intimidation way, but some emotion... some consequences. When the calm dad gets pissed off it can really have a lasting effect. Have him snap a clip board or bench the starters or some ****. I worry now that the guys would laugh it off and it would be too scripted.

I've reached the point where I am cool with just about any trade that doesn't give away a first rounder. We are headed for a pivot and need to control our draft. We can't make mistakes to try and keep Donovan.... he either stays or he doesn't. It was part of the mistakes we made with Hayward.

And to those that are like "whiny *** fans.... go be a Kings fan". We have a talented team with good dudes. We ask for effort (which includes focus)... we will go to war for you if you give us your best effort. Give us your best effort... if you get out-talented then fine.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Its justifiable to downplay a regular season game or two when the team plays hard regularly. Its okay to have an off night. It's also smart to manage injuries throughout the season and especially in the 6 weeks leading up to the playoffs manage minutes...

But this is spot on. If you use the regular season to add new wrinkles, experiment, or explore what young players can give you and it costs you games... no big deal. When you half-*** 7 out of 10 games and try to "get up" for the big games it doesn't work. It's not always a switch that can be flipped on. The team this year isn't respecting the game... is respecting the effort needed to win and isn't embracing the type of play necessary to win at the levels they need to. It's a lot of Quin but its also Joe coming in out of shape and not locked in... its JC being JC and Whiteside Whitesiding... its Donovan playing defense sometimes and other times not at all or chucking horrible shots at the end of the game to be the hero... its Royce either hurt or not as hungry as he used to be.

Quin is using the "play best when it matters" as an excuse. He gets up there and talks about effort and all that **** but gets pissy when a guy asks a question that might indicate he has lost the team. He has played good cop too much. My parents are divorced. My dad was a great buddy growing up... he was a huge fan... but I could do whatever the hell I wanted when I was there and my brother and I would get into some ****. It was okay cuz it was every other weekend. If he was raising me I'd be screwed up. My stepdad was an ******* and a bully, but I toed the line at home. I resent him because it didn't come from a place of love... but that fear kept me in check and was a good thing. Quin has needed to put some fear in guys a little. Not in an intimidation way, but some emotion... some consequences. When the calm dad gets pissed off it can really have a lasting effect. Have him snap a clip board or bench the starters or some ****. I worry now that the guys would laugh it off and it would be too scripted.

I've reached the point where I am cool with just about any trade that doesn't give away a first rounder. We are headed for a pivot and need to control our draft. We can't make mistakes to try and keep Donovan.... he either stays or he doesn't. It was part of the mistakes we made with Hayward.

And to those that are like "whiny *** fans.... go be a Kings fan". We have a talented team with good dudes. We ask for effort (which includes focus)... we will go to war for you if you give us your best effort. Give us your best effort... if you get out-talented then fine.
Click to expand...
Good post.

Yes the team needs a coach and a boss, not a buddy and a pal. He isn't their therapist, he needs to get on their asses and stop worrying about being liked, and instead be respected. You can hate someone's guts and still respect them. It is clear they don't respect him the way they should and he doesn't do anything to garner that respect. He has lost this team, imo. Time for him to change tactics or for us to move on to a new coach.
 
LoPo said:
The regular season definitely matters, but regular season success does not translate to postseason success.

We are supposedly built with postseason success in mind when we are really just built for regular season success.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...
Well apparently regular season is not so set in stone now either. If we keep this losing streak, we could find ourselves in the play-in tournament then miss the playoffs completely
 
infection said:
The regular season is not sufficient, which the team and a certain contingent of the fan base and media have conflated with it not being necessary.

It’s the right basic concept with the absolute wrong application. The idea that you’re going to magically turn it on when it matters is pretty wild, but apparently a right we’ve earned as a team, having never won more than two second-round games.
Click to expand...
I personally think we did the opposite last year. I think we went out and maximized our talent and schemes for the regular season. We got into a great rhythm at times doing what we do. Well, the regular season is played differently than the playoffs. Different tempos, rotations, etc.

I think last postseason broke our spirit because we put so much effort into being regular season dominant. Then the summer came and we didn't address issues or add somebody to rejuvenate the locker room.
 
Regular season and postseason are incredibly linked. Show me how many championship teams there have been who weren't a top 3 seed. I'm guessing it's very very little.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Regular season and postseason are incredibly linked. Show me how many championship teams there have been who weren't a top 3 seed. I'm guessing it's very very little.
Click to expand...
That's why I think the regular season is important. It definitely helps to get the job done, but it's no predicter of playoff success.

The overall #1 seed in the NBA playoffs has only won the title like 33% of the time since 2000. And that includes monster teams like GS, Miami, etc.
 
LoPo said:
That's why I think the regular season is important. It definitely helps to get the job done, but it's no predicter of playoff success.

The overall #1 seed in the NBA playoffs has only won the title like 33% of the time since 2000. And that includes monster teams like GS, Miami, etc.
Click to expand...
ANd Im guessing that's the highest % of any seed, right?
 
Regular season matters. The number of Wins and losses doesn't always matter other than playoff matchups and potentially home court.

If the strategy is to rest your stars and take more losses, that is a good strategy, and the losses don't matter as much. Last year, part of the problem was injury and too many minutes for our stars. When healthy, that still seems to be the case, but we are losing.

Effort picks up in the playoffs, but it shouldn't regress from regular season to regular season. If you aren't disciplined, and running good sets in the regular season, it won't magically change in the playoffs.

The Spurs have mastered this. They always have effort, but were very good at resting Duncan, Leonard, Parker, etc., so they were healthy for the playoffs. Pop also holds every player from 1-15 accountable, and will call a time out and bench you in a second. The NBA has become soft, and you need player coaches, but it only works if the players get on board. You have to hold everyone accountable. It isn't personal, it is a business, and people need to do their damn job.

Maybe this is all a facade and the Jazz are secretly building new sets in practice that they will rollout in the playoffs, and they will pull the ultimate Keyser Soze. More likely Quin is the devil, and he will continue to eat a piece of our souls every game until there's nothing left.
 
The correlation is weird on who wins the championship to regular season success. Of course the team with the 1 or 2 seed is more likely to win the championship merely because more often than not the best teams end up in the 1 or 2 spot because they can beat more teams. It is kind of an anthropic principle of the NBA. The finals by necessity end up with a 1 or 2 seed from both conferences because that is where the best teams tend to fall. Occasionally the trend is bucked, but not very often. Only 2 seeds at 4 or lower have won a championship in NBA history.

It is 65 titles to the 1 or 2 seed, and 9 total from seeds 3-6.

www.sportskeeda.com

5 Lowest seeds ever to win an NBA championship

The 2021 NBA championship is up for grabs with LeBron James and the LA Lakers looking to win back-to-back titles against a slew of contenders built to defeat them.
www.sportskeeda.com www.sportskeeda.com

NBA champions and their seedings in history​

Out of the 74 NBA champions, most of them have come from the No. 1 (53) and No. 2 (12) seeds. That’s 65 titles between the two seeds and the rest were divided between the third (7), fourth (1) and sixth seeds (1).
Click to expand...

But it is weird to argue whether the regular season matters, as if jockeying for playoff position is a thing, when more often than not the better teams simply end up in the 1 or 2 spot because they are better. I think the Jazz are approaching this more from a perspective of how do we win until we get our players back, and can we still be competing for a playoff spot once we do get them all back and we are fully healthy and ready to go, more than deciding that the regular season doesn't matter.

But in the end you have to ask, even fully healthy, are we one of the top 2 teams in the West? That is very debatable and frankly will only be decided on the court.

Right now we are not.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Its justifiable to downplay a regular season game or two when the team plays hard regularly. Its okay to have an off night. It's also smart to manage injuries throughout the season and especially in the 6 weeks leading up to the playoffs manage minutes...

But this is spot on. If you use the regular season to add new wrinkles, experiment, or explore what young players can give you and it costs you games... no big deal. When you half-*** 7 out of 10 games and try to "get up" for the big games it doesn't work. It's not always a switch that can be flipped on. The team this year isn't respecting the game... is respecting the effort needed to win and isn't embracing the type of play necessary to win at the levels they need to. It's a lot of Quin but its also Joe coming in out of shape and not locked in... its JC being JC and Whiteside Whitesiding... its Donovan playing defense sometimes and other times not at all or chucking horrible shots at the end of the game to be the hero... its Royce either hurt or not as hungry as he used to be.

Quin is using the "play best when it matters" as an excuse. He gets up there and talks about effort and all that **** but gets pissy when a guy asks a question that might indicate he has lost the team. He has played good cop too much. My parents are divorced. My dad was a great buddy growing up... he was a huge fan... but I could do whatever the hell I wanted when I was there and my brother and I would get into some ****. It was okay cuz it was every other weekend. If he was raising me I'd be screwed up. My stepdad was an ******* and a bully, but I toed the line at home. I resent him because it didn't come from a place of love... but that fear kept me in check and was a good thing. Quin has needed to put some fear in guys a little. Not in an intimidation way, but some emotion... some consequences. When the calm dad gets pissed off it can really have a lasting effect. Have him snap a clip board or bench the starters or some ****. I worry now that the guys would laugh it off and it would be too scripted.

I've reached the point where I am cool with just about any trade that doesn't give away a first rounder. We are headed for a pivot and need to control our draft. We can't make mistakes to try and keep Donovan.... he either stays or he doesn't. It was part of the mistakes we made with Hayward.

And to those that are like "whiny *** fans.... go be a Kings fan". We have a talented team with good dudes. We ask for effort (which includes focus)... we will go to war for you if you give us your best effort. Give us your best effort... if you get out-talented then fine.
Click to expand...
Good one.

Sent from my SM-G986U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Neat article.

Hadn't realized the last Russell Celtics run they were the #4 seed. But that's a man with a ring for every finger already.

Hakeem's 2nd ring was the only other one not from a top 3 seed.

Tells you what we need to know, we need to get it together or stir it up and relatively quickly.
 
OP is 100% correct in terms of entertainment and being a fan. The NBA has to have a RS that matters. Unfortunately, that's why the NBA is failing as a TV product. From a competition standpoint, the RS is mostly meaningless. The outcome of any given game is not likely to make a large impact on anything, and there are so many games to make up for that one random game. There are no serious consequences or rewards for winning or losing during the RS. We've gotten to the point where nearly everyone openly acknowledges this. The teams don't care, the players don't care, and many hardcore fans don't care either. What matters is the playoffs. That's how legacies are made and that's what every team is "competing" for. I wish it wasn't this way, but that is the new meta in the NBA.

I don't feel differently about the Jazz now that they've lost 9 of 11 than I felt about them when they won 11 of 12 or whatever it was. The outcomes do not matter in the grand scheme of things. When Quin says it doesn't matter how we're playing right now, it really doesn't matter. The Jazz were the best team in the RS last year and one of the top defenses. Didn't mean a thing when it came to the playoffs. This isn't to say that there's no value to the RS. MIL didn't give a damn about outcomes last season (or this season) and more or less used the RS as a very long, extended preseason. After years of dominating the RS they figured it and rightfully did not care about outcomes. Instead they used the RS for experimentation and rest. That stuff does matter, but actually winning or losing on a given night does not. It's the sad truth about the NBA.

This is why I am very pro shortening the season and/or mid season tournament. The NBA has gotten so stale with the championship or bust mentality. The RS is essentially just an 82 game pre season and that is terrible for the league. When winning the championship is the only goal and that is directly at odds with competing hard in the RS to win you've got a serious problem.
 
infection said:
The regular season is not sufficient, which the team and a certain contingent of the fan base and media have conflated with it not being necessary.

It’s the right basic concept with the absolute wrong application. The idea that you’re going to magically turn it on when it matters is pretty wild, but apparently a right we’ve earned as a team, having never won more than two second-round games.
Click to expand...
I thought we were up 3-1 vs the nuggets a few years ago.
 
LoPo said:
That's why I think the regular season is important. It definitely helps to get the job done, but it's no predicter of playoff success.

The overall #1 seed in the NBA playoffs has only won the title like 33% of the time since 2000. And that includes monster teams like GS, Miami, etc.
Click to expand...
How often do teams that play poorly in the regular season win the title?
 
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