What's new
By:

remember when our offense looked like this?

jope said:
Bro, besides what dw and boozer became because of sloans system, none of those players were high profile.that's why they ended up in Utah. And to argue that sloan held then back while producing the best offense in the league is laughable
Click to expand...

Carlos Boozer averaged 16 and 11 in his 2nd year in Cleveland. Jerry Sloan didnt make him, he was already a high level offensive talent. Sloan elevate his game to an extent, of course, as did D-Will, but he would have been a threat anywhere in the league.

Okur was a per-minute monster who was breaking out on a loaded Detroit team when Utah signed him. It's not as if we saved his career. We just snagged him from a loaded team where he didnt have as much opportunity to shine.

What Utah did in FA that year was amazing by snagging two players who showed a ton of promise in their 2nd years because their teams couldnt afford them and only signed them to two year rookie deals.

When you have 3 highly talented offensive weapons, and one of them is an elite playmaking PG, you are going to have an offense no matter what.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
You answered your own ludicrous statement.
Click to expand...

not at all. if our main creator is off, or the defense read's snyder's simplistic attempt at a set, then the whole offensive game is shut down and we can't score (happening more and more). there's no way for the exum's, the withey's etc. to score efficiently, by relying on a set that will get them a basket regardless of talent.

Sloan had multiple plays that if you just ran hard and followed the route, you'd get a good look at the basket regardless of your talent level. not only that, but they actually ran the fast break and got easy looks, which lesser players can get involved with as well.

snyder's idea of a set is passing around the key, parking the less talented players in the corners (or letting mack jack). which means that if hayward or hood are off or get shut down, we suck ***.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Carlos Boozer averaged 16 and 11 in his 2nd year in Cleveland. Jerry Sloan didnt make him, he was already a high level offensive talent. Sloan elevate his game to an extent, of course, as did D-Will, but he would have been a threat anywhere in the league.

Okur was a per-minute monster who was breaking out on a loaded Detroit team when Utah signed him. It's not as if we saved his career. We just snagged him from a loaded team where he didnt have as much opportunity to shine.

What Utah did in FA that year was amazing by snagging two players who showed a ton of promise in their 2nd years because their teams couldnt afford them and only signed them to two year rookie deals.

When you have 3 highly talented offensive weapons, and one of them is an elite playmaking PG, you are going to have an offense no matter what.
Click to expand...

neither player had a bidding war going for them, or they wouldnt have ended up in utah. that shows a great win for the front office no doubt, but its not like these guys were world beaters that every team was clearing the roster for.

secondly, we do have 3 (not as, but not that far off IMO) talented offensive weapons in hood, hill, and hayward. it remains to be seen if Snyder can generate a #1 offense from that.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Years without D-Will or Stockton as PG:
03/04 : https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2004.html#all_team-stats-base 19th in offensive rating

04/05: https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2005.html 23rd in offensive rating

That system tho.
Click to expand...

03-04 --- Relative oRtg = -1.0

Andrei Kirilenko
Matt Harpring
Carlos Arroyo
DeShawn Stevenson
Greg Ostertag
Raja Bell
Gordan Giricek
Jarron Collins
Tom Gugliotta


this year's team Relative oRtg = -0.7

that system tho
 
jope said:
03-04 --- Relative oRtg = -1.0

Andrei Kirilenko
Matt Harpring
Carlos Arroyo
DeShawn Stevenson
Greg Ostertag
Raja Bell
Gordan Giricek
Jarron Collins
Tom Gugliotta


this year's team Relative oRtg = -0.7

that system tho
Click to expand...

So we are going to compare the offensive ratings from separate eras and to a year that isnt even completed? That is irresponsible.
 
You dont even provide links to the stats you cite which makes them fishy. I already caught you lying on Okur's TS% in a season. Everything I have provided I have sourced.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
You dont even provide links to the stats you cite which makes them fishy. I already caught you lying on Okur's TS% in a season. Everything I have provided I have sourced.
Click to expand...

yes because our talent level this year, even at the end of the bench, is 10x that roster, and they are relatively the same offensively. you proved my point.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
So we are going to compare the offensive ratings from separate eras and to a year that isnt even completed? That is irresponsible.
Click to expand...

yes because our talent level this year, even at the end of the bench, is 10x that roster, and they are relatively the same offensively. you proved my point. and its not comparing oRtg from separate eras, its comparing how that teams offense compared to the rest of the league that year. it is normalized data.
 
jope said:
03-04 --- Relative oRtg = -1.0

Andrei Kirilenko
Matt Harpring
Carlos Arroyo
DeShawn Stevenson
Greg Ostertag
Raja Bell
Gordan Giricek
Jarron Collins
Tom Gugliotta


this year's team Relative oRtg = -0.7

that system tho
Click to expand...

Even more comical you only listed the players that make your argument looker better while we still had Okur and Boozer on those teams. And AK-47 was a super talented player in those years and an All-Star. Poor Jerry Sloan he had to figure out how to use a player like AK, must have been so hard.
 
jope said:
yes because our talent level this year, even at the end of the bench, is 10x that roster, and they are relatively the same offensively. you proved my point. and its not comparing oRtg from separate eras, its comparing how that teams offense compared to the rest of the league that year. it is normalized data.
Click to expand...

It isnt though....

Depth is negated when the whole team is injured.... Which is why it's beyond stupid to pull up the rating this early and start comparing it to previous years.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
It isnt though....

Depth is negated when the whole team is injured.... Which is why it's beyond stupid to pull up the rating this early and start comparing it to previous years.
Click to expand...

joe johnson, our 7th or 8th man, is likely better than everyone minus AK on that 03-04 team.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I'm officially done arguing in this thread. I think I've made my point clear enough.
Click to expand...

yep, you think snyder would do better than sloan, IE take the #1 offense and make it a SUPER #1 offense, even though he's never made even an above average offense one time, got it.

Snyder's offense is a joke, considering his reputation as some offensive mastermind, and it is empirically supported. I honestly don't even know how you can argue it. every team has injuries, he just doesnt know how to deal with it when it happens.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Even more comical you only listed the players that make your argument looker better while we still had Okur and Boozer on those teams. And AK-47 was a super talented player in those years and an All-Star. Poor Jerry Sloan he had to figure out how to use a player like AK, must have been so hard.
Click to expand...

LMFAO. Failblog here we come.
 
Snyder offense is only jump shots or isolation play.....no fastbreaks, no post-ups, no alley-oops, no easy buckets!

He was labeled as a offensive mastermind...time to live up to the hype and show some flexibility.

The Jazz don't have an offensive identity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top