Rethinking Jefferson

[billyshelby]

The Jazz offense gets better when the focus isn't solely on getting the ball to Jefferson on the left block. Jefferson should be the anchor, used when the ship is going awry, and not the engine, rarely sending the ship to the right place.

A totally fair point. But the Jazz offense without that anchor doesn't sniff the playoffs. Al's ability to get shots in the low post is greatly under-appreciated. Favors' stunning offensive development is intriguing, but he's still far away from Al as far as being able to generate consistent offense on the block without help.

 

[franklin]

That revenue thing I didn't hear about. So is it like the NFL? You are not talking about the money shared when a team goes over the tax are you? Who is it coming from? The big market teams?

As far as I know it will come from luxury tax and other areas if needed. With the new, punitive LT rules it might all come from LT with plenty left to spare, which would be used for general league purposes.

There were only a couple reports out on it after the new CBA. One from Milwaukee and an ESPN one I think.


https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Revenue sharing

• 2005 CBA: Some of the undistributed funds from the luxury tax were given to teams in competitively disadvantaged markets.

• 2011 CBA: A new plan approximately triples the amount of money that is revenue-shared. Details of this plan are yet to be finalized.

• Who benefits? Small-market teams. Teams like the Lakers, with their new $3 billion local television contract, will be perennial payers into this system, and teams like Charlotte and Milwaukee will be perennial beneficiaries.

The old sharing was $5mm max, so $15 now. That's a real difference maker to the Jazz, as they've reported their financial condition anyway.

 

[franklin]

More:

https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7332374/nba-labor-players-owners-vote-ratify-new-labor-agreement

Owners also agreed to an expanded revenue sharing plan, and Stern called both agreements "a watershed moment" for the league. The plan, which will begin in 2013-14, more than quadruples the revenue currently shared by teams, with Stern saying they could now receive in excess of $20 million and at least six teams could pay $50 million into the plan.

Saying they lost hundreds of millions a year under the old collective bargaining agreement, ratified in 2005, and believing that it favored large-market teams, owners sought significant changes in these negotiations. They refused an option to let the CBA run another year and opened the process in January 2010 with a proposal that called for a hard cap, the elimination of guaranteed contracts, rollbacks of current salaries and a massive reduction in the players' share of basketball-related income.

 

[franklin]

Details of the actual formula:

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com...Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NBA-revenue.aspx

 

[Stifle Tower]

I just want to enjoy the playoffs. That win was just a fantastic feeling.

I like Al and have probably defended him more than anyone here but never really thought he was going to be on the team in 2 years. However if the Big Big 3 of Jeff/Favors/Sap are effective against the Spurs there will be a lot of incentive to keep them together.

The success of Al's newfound passing skills and Sap at the 3 really opens up the possibility of a future for Jefferson. At least through next year.

Big Al had a sensational game against the Suns: he played defensive, hit key shots and passed well out of the double teams. There's no way he's going to be traded prior to the deadline. Kanter simply isn't ready to be a starter. I hope Corbin utilizes the big lineup more often. And with an offseason to drop a few pounds and work on his speed, Millsap could be even better at SF. I like Paul as a swing forward, which would allow Hayward to open at SG.

It will be interesting to see what KOC does. Maybe without CJ, and hopefully trading Bell, funds will be opened up and the Memo TPE can be used to pick up another wing or a PG. I'm hoping Tinsley will come back. Howard really isn't needed. And as much as I liked Watson, he really became a negative influence. He should be released.

 

[NAOS]

.... this is just a quick aside for the sake of Watson....

people around here were ready to have his babies at one point in the season. I'm gonna defend the guy. I, too, might prefer Tinsley, but Watson has been a good dude for us for two seasons. That's all.

 

[jope]

its just been nice to finally get some consistency from our bigs. them playing almost every game keeps them in rhythm with each other, instead of constantly working their way back from injuries.

al jeff: 60/65 games played this season (92%)
-----------------2 year Career with jazz 142/147 (96.6%)-------------


Milsap: 64/65 games played this season (98.5%)
-----------------since boozer fled the scene~~ 140/147 (95.2%)

favors: 64/65 games played this season (98.5%)
-----------------2 years in league ~~ 142/147 (96.6%)

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Good point, GE. The person who needs to mature to replace Jefferson with the Jazz isn't Favors, it's Kanter.

 

[Brown Notes]

IMO AJ's future is tied to the PG position.

If Utah wants to pursue a ball dominating point they have several options. Trade for Rondo, somehow lure Deron back or sign Nash/draft Marshall. If any of those players come to the Jazz Jefferson has to go. He just isn't a guy that can catch the ball moving towards the hoop and do something with it.

However if Utah pursues a player like Curry or stays pat with Harris these guys will fit well with him. Curry in particular would be great receiving that kick out from his man cheating down.

I don't think Al should be traded until we are sure to land one of those pure points, and maybe not at all if KOC can't get one.

 

[Jazz4ever]

The decision to trade Al was already made when they selected Kanter, that's why Knight was the predicted pick by most for a long time. You do not draft a #3 pick to play him just 13 minutes a game. Irving got 31 mpg, Williams 21, Thompson 23, Kanter 13. With no training camp and a lockout shortened season, you could argue it was justifiable to only play Kanter 13 mpg. It will not be fathomable in his full second year.

Now there is always the chance some team gives KOC an offer he can't turn down on Kanter, like Rondo or George, and that would make Jefferson a long time fixture here. But I would be surprised if both Kanter and Jefferson are here to start next year.

 

[Stifle Tower]

The decision to trade Al was already made when they selected Kanter, that's why Knight was the predicted pick by most for a long time. You do not draft a #3 pick to play him just 13 minutes a game. Irving got 31 mpg, Williams 21, Thompson 23, Kanter 13. With no training camp and a lockout shortened season, you could argue it was justifiable to only play Kanter 13 mpg. It will not be fathomable in his full second year.

Now there is always the chance some team gives KOC an offer he can't turn down on Kanter, like Rondo or George, and that would make Jefferson a long time fixture here. But I would be surprised if both Kanter and Jefferson are here to start next year.

I disagree. Kanter was chosen because he was the BPA at #3 and the Jazz were looking towards the future. It would be much different if Enes was a guy who had played 2-4 years of college ball. But he played ZERO. Kanter was picked for his POTENTIAL, with the Jazz knowing he was nowhere near ready to contribute significantly right away. I'm sure the Jazz FO also factored in that Big Al's contract runs through 2013. The rule of thumb is that bigs generally take 3-5 years to develop. If Kanter had come in like a DeMarcus Cousins, then I think you could consider trading Jefferson. But playing Kanter 30+ minutes is not feasible. It might not even be feasible to play Favors that much because he often gets into foul trouble.

The best solution is to let Millsap play some minutes at SF. That opens up enough time next season for Kanter to play 15-20 - if he merits that much time. Hopefully by Year #3 Kanter is ready to start. If not, then the Jazz may consider making Jefferson an offer. Right now, Kanter has shown little, other than being a solid rebounder. He needs a lot of work on his game before the Jazz cut loose one of their top bigs.

 

[Scorpjazz]

To the people who state he had a few good games, sorry, but this is reality....his season stats

49% FG 77% FT
19.4 PPG 9.7 RPG 1.7 BPG in 34 minutes a game...
Im not seeing many players AT ALL in the NBA who beat that

Now use your per or +/- or your astute, expert diagnosis of his play and break down how he sucks again, please. I sure I will understand it this time.

 

[Brown Notes]

To the people who state he had a few good games, sorry, but this is reality....his season stats

49% FG 77% FT
19.4 PPG 9.7 RPG 1.7 BPG in 34 minutes a game...
Im not seeing many players AT ALL in the NBA who beat that

Now use your per or +/- or your astute, expert diagnosis of his play and break down how he sucks again, please. I sure I will understand it this time.

He's poor against PnR which is the staple of NBA offense, doesn't draw fouls and sometimes takes bad shots. That's about it. For Utah basketball specifically Al is not a guy who fits with an offense that moves the ball a ton or plays well without the ball in general. He doesn't set nasty mean screens and doesn't finish PnR at the rim.

It's actually amazing he is as good as he is with these flaws. I love him because of not only the things he does do well but overall character, toughness and willingness to get better. This guy doesn't get hurt, makes the FTs he gets generally and is GREAT for locker room chemistry. Also aside from his general BB skills Al has proved he is not scared to put the biggest games on his shoulders. It's just so easy to cheer for a player like Al.

He deserves a serious look. IF Kanter shows that he is going to really be something special, OR if Utah obtains a top flight pure point then Al is bait. Aside from that it would not be a good idea to dump him just for the sake of getting rid of him or fail to maximize his value. If Al simply learned to make better decisions in space on D he would be almost a complete player. Just that one thing, which is coachable.

 

[reignman40]

I will take Big Al over Boozer any day. A couple things....

1. He can block a shot more than once a month.
2. I don't cringe everytime he shoots.

 

[Matthew Thomas Castleton]

I will take Big Al over Boozer any day. A couple things....

1. He can block a shot more than once a month.
2. I don't cringe everytime he shoots.

I agree. Jefferson was simply amazing against the Suns. They simply had no way to stop him. He has improved this year defensively. I want lots and lots of our new "Big 3" (Millsap, Favors, and Jefferson). Teams simply can't match up against our size, length, and defense (especially with Hayward) when they are on the floor together. I know some won't want to hear it, but I think that we have a serious chance to upset the Spurs if we give them a huge dose of Paul, Derrick, and Al.

 

[Hantlers]

If we play the "Big 3" lineup quite a bit next year, I don't see any reason why Kanter couldn't get 20+ minutes off the bench. I think that allows him to develop more and learn from Big Al at the same time...I just don't think Kanter is ready for big time minutes yet.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

If we play the "Big 3" lineup quite a bit next year, I don't see any reason why Kanter couldn't get 20+ minutes off the bench. I think that allows him to develop more and learn from Big Al at the same time...I just don't think Kanter is ready for big time minutes yet.

Agreed. While I think Kanter has good potential, I don't think he's ready yet to log starter or 6th man minutes on a playoff team. I tend to think he needs at least one more year of experience before he's ready. When he's in the game, the offense seems to die. To me this is an other reason to keep Jefferson and see how successful we can be to integrate him, Milsap, and Favors into a formidable front line.

 

[gomretat]

Big Al has been great all year. If Enes puts up numbers in the future like Al does we should all be ecstatic. Obviously his defense isn't great but not as bad as most make it. I definitely prefer him over Booz but it is funny how so many on this board are anxious to get rid of 20 and 10 guys. Enes numbers over 34 minutes a game would not be half of Al's. Personally, I like to win so I hope he sticks around. Seems to me we are anxious to dump people to win in the future when in reality those we are counting on in the future may never be as good as what we have right now.

 

[mrob]

Big Al has been great all year. If Enes puts up numbers in the future like Al does we should all be ecstatic. Obviously his defense isn't great but not as bad as most make it. I definitely prefer him over Booz but it is funny how so many on this board are anxious to get rid of 20 and 10 guys. Enes numbers over 34 minutes a game would not be half of Al's. Personally, I like to win so I hope he sticks around. Seems to me we are anxious to dump people to win in the future when in reality those we are counting on in the future may never be as good as what we have right now.

I agree that this board is quick to dismiss players like Jefferson and Boozer because of their weaknesses ... particularly on defense. The thing is that as you look around the league, those perfect players that do everything well are few and far between. More often than not, the options out there are going to suck at something else. So even if you find that guy that can really lock it down on defense, they aren't going to get anything close to 20/10.

To those that are looking to get rid of Jefferson at all costs, what are some examples of players you would replace him with? His offensive production would need to be replaced if he were gone.

 

[theNBAnerd]

To the people who state he had a few good games, sorry, but this is reality....his season stats

49% FG 77% FT
19.4 PPG 9.7 RPG 1.7 BPG in 34 minutes a game...
Im not seeing many players AT ALL in the NBA who beat that

Now use your per or +/- or your astute, expert diagnosis of his play and break down how he sucks again, please. I sure I will understand it this time.

nobody's saying he doesn't have good stats. just that it's not clear how/if he consistently makes anybody around him better.