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Rev up the tank!

Ron Mexico said:
We were below .500 when the trade happened. We played .500 until we started tanking. That is a higher winning percentage, so yes factually we won more. We started resting players at the point like Clarkson. A player scoring a bunch has nothing to do with tanking. Players don't tank.
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You are correct players don’t tank the coaches do in my opinion ,players go out there to win or score or play good defence if they didn’t they would be worried about losing their spot to an incoming high draft pick rookie if we tanked
 
Its not like the plan is hard to see anymore. This DL made it super clear:
We are lurking in the brink of being competitive while maximizing development for (potential) gems like Keyonte, Sexton, Lauri and Kessler. Lauri is already there, and Sexton is also pretty good... but maybe they can both still get even better? Keyonte and Kessler still need some work, but hopefully one or both of those becomes a major force for us. Next up to join that list of promising big minute contributors is hopefully Hendricks. Even John Collins is young, only the "contributing in a major role" is pretty questionnable for him. And we have like 20% of the tradable picks in the NBA.

If and when a player who can leapfrog us over some steps becomes available, we will jump if we think he is "the guy". But as much as my fellow Finns here like to think so, you just cannot force that stuff to happen no matter how many picks you got.

Plan is not to deep tank anymore than it is to win now. Plan is to develop and lurk on the brink of contention, until we get an internal leap or the big splash deal, which then opens the door for us to really start to build up.

We are sitting where traditional wisdom says you shouldnt sit, but our FO has found a way to get us promising youth and assets while being here. I mean we will now have 2 rookies and 1 sophomore playing big minutes, while fighting for a play-in spot, while having the biggest chest of draft assets in the league. Thats an awesome situation, and far better than last year since we are leasing less and less minutes/contribution from the 30+ yo vets, while having guys with higher ceilings in there.
 
HermanG said:
Our FO has found a way to get us promising youth and assets while being here. I mean we will now have 2 rookies and 1 sophomore playing big minutes, while fighting for a play-in spot, while having the biggest chest of draft assets in the league. Thats an awesome situation, and far better than last year since we are leasing less and less minutes/contribution from the 30+ yo vets, while having guys with higher ceilings in there.
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This
 
If we lose to Warriors on the postponed game and mess up with my 12-7 record guess and strip me off my bragging rights I am officialy saying we are tanking! :mad:
 
Mr. T said:
If we lose to Warriors on the postponed game and mess up with my 12-7 record guess and strip me off my bragging rights I am officialy saying we are tanking! :mad:
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That will be upsetting to me as well since that will be the first game I have attended in years

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HermanG said:
Its not like the plan is hard to see anymore. This DL made it super clear:
We are lurking in the brink of being competitive while maximizing development for (potential) gems like Keyonte, Sexton, Lauri and Kessler. Lauri is already there, and Sexton is also pretty good... but maybe they can both still get even better? Keyonte and Kessler still need some work, but hopefully one or both of those becomes a major force for us. Next up to join that list of promising big minute contributors is hopefully Hendricks. Even John Collins is young, only the "contributing in a major role" is pretty questionnable for him. And we have like 20% of the tradable picks in the NBA.

If and when a player who can leapfrog us over some steps becomes available, we will jump if we think he is "the guy". But as much as my fellow Finns here like to think so, you just cannot force that stuff to happen no matter how many picks you got.

Plan is not to deep tank anymore than it is to win now. Plan is to develop and lurk on the brink of contention, until we get an internal leap or the big splash deal, which then opens the door for us to really start to build up.

We are sitting where traditional wisdom says you shouldnt sit, but our FO has found a way to get us promising youth and assets while being here. I mean we will now have 2 rookies and 1 sophomore playing big minutes, while fighting for a play-in spot, while having the biggest chest of draft assets in the league. Thats an awesome situation, and far better than last year since we are leasing less and less minutes/contribution from the 30+ yo vets, while having guys with higher ceilings in there.
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You summed it up well! I would make a small edit to "brink of contention" and change to "develop into a competitive playoff team" I think the "brink of contention" comes after the big internal leap or we get the big fish. Great post.
 
rocfan1 said:
You summed it up well! I would make a small edit to "brink of contention" and change to "develop into a competitive playoff team" I think the "brink of contention" comes after the big internal leap or we get the big fish. Great post.
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That is true. I was meant to refrain using the word contention and use the word competitive all the way through like I did at the start.

We cannot build up and hone the edges before we know what kind of extra blocks we need, can we?
 
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Wolfe, fire up der panzer!!!
 
Mr. T said:
Sorry, that's a heavy tank and out of the question at this point. The only plausible option is a light tank but we also might have a tank destroyer.

Anyone playing WoT get the references.
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How about a compromise, real workhorse of a tank, not getting the headlines but getting the job done, a panzer IV J?

images
 
This seasons trades were not nearly as crippling on paper as last seasons, when a lot of people were worried that Lauri was a product of Mike Conley to some extent.

Now we know he wasnt, and we also know who Sexton is. With those two plus Dunn, Collins, Kessler and especially Hard Willy we are gonna be fine.

We wont fall like a rock, that much is for sure.
 
HermanG said:
This seasons trades were not nearly as crippling on paper as last seasons, when a lot of people were worried that Lauri was a product of Mike Conley to some extent.

Now we know he wasnt, and we also know who Sexton is. With those two plus Dunn, Collins, Kessler and especially Hard Willy we are gonna be fine.

We wont fall like a rock, that much is for sure.
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I know a couple of posters who are hoping we will fall like a rock.
 
fishonjazz said:
I know a couple of posters who are hoping we will fall like a rock.
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Why would they ever think like that? What would be the point?

As for me, my stance is clear. I want to win. Short term, long term, doesn't matter. Winning is good, winning is the reason team sports exist. These moves made us worse and less likely to get wins in the short term... with absolutely no guarantee that they'll help us in the future either.

I don't like these trades but my stance remains the same... I hope we win as much as possible the rest of the way. If playing the G-League rooks as little as possible helps us win, then I'm all for that.

So I'm afraid your passive aggressive remark missed its mark. IMO it should have been aimed at the people who want to see a ton of rookie minutes. Because THAT will make us fall like a rock.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Why would they ever think like that? What would be the point?
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It's weird but some people would rather be correct than happy. Some people seem to like to be miserable. They do weird stuff like save a post for prosperity because it was thinking the jazz might continue to play well and they want to have it in the hopes they can bump it later.

It's something I don't understand but in today's society I see a lot of people who seem to want to be miserable. I work closely with a guy like that. He always negative.
Funny story: on Thursday he won $500 dollars in a work raffle. I said "that's awesome that you won 500 bucks bro. Congrats!". His response? "Well who knows when I will even get it (it will be on future paycheck) and I will probably have to pay taxes on it anyway". He said this with a tone that made it seem like winning this $500 dollars was negative. Like it was some kind of hassle that he had to now deal with.

You often remind me of him. Someone will post something positive about the jazz and you will try to turn that into a negative for some reason. I don't understand it at all. But here we are.

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OKC is still flush with picks and their rebuild is looking good. I did some investigating and found their past trades over the last few seasons to be vast and interesting as we're in a similar boat as OKC, pick hoarding-wise:

www.spotrac.com

NBA Transactions

A real-time look at the NBA news & transactions updated daily, including signings, releases, trades, & more.
www.spotrac.com www.spotrac.com
 
fishonjazz said:
It's weird but some people would rather be correct than happy. Some people seem to like to be miserable. They do weird stuff like save a post for prosperity because it was thinking the jazz might continue to play well and they want to have it in the hopes they can bump it later.

It's something I don't understand but in today's society I see a lot of people who seem to want to be miserable. I work closely with a guy like that. He always negative.
Funny story: on Thursday he won $500 dollars in a work raffle. I said "that's awesome that you won 500 bucks bro. Congrats!". His response? "Well who knows when I will even get it (it will be on future paycheck) and I will probably have to pay taxes on it anyway". He said this with a tone that made it seem like winning this $500 dollars was negative. Like it was some kind of hassle that he had to now deal with.

You often remind me of him. Someone will post something positive about the jazz and you will try to turn that into a negative for some reason. I don't understand it at all. But here we are.

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I dont mind being wrong. If we fall then I'm much more bummed about the fact that we traded away a guy who was having a much bigger contribution than I thought.

According to BBall ref win shares we traded away 5.4 wins per 50.33 games, with only factoring the outgoing players.

Not that those stats are accurate reflection of the full impact of a player, but if we pretend so then that means we lose 1 extra game per 10 games played.

Also Clarkson alone can negate half of that just by returning to his correct level. He has -0.1 offensive WS for the season and a total of 0.3, when he should be around 2-3.
 
HermanG said:
I dont mind being wrong. If we fall then I'm much more bummed about the fact that we traded away a guy who was having a much bigger contribution than I thought.

According to BBall ref win shares we traded away 5.4 wins per 50.33 games, with only factoring the outgoing players.

Not that those stats are accurate reflection of the full impact of a player, but if we pretend so then that means we lose 1 extra game per 10 games played.

Also Clarkson alone can negate half of that just by returning to his correct level. He has -0.1 offensive WS for the season and a total of 0.3, when he should be around 2-3.
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Ya and I will say again, I didn't like the trades (especially the simone one) but they happened. I think they made us worse. But there is a chance that im wrong and we wont be worse. I hope im wrong.
There is also a chance that we are worse but the end result of the season is no different. We might have made the play in and even got into the playoffs if the trades never happened. We might also be worse now and still get into the playoffs. Other teams fighting for the playoffs could also get worse keeping us in the same position.
 
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