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Rudy back to beasting... this changes everything.

Archie Moses said:
I heard Locke on the radio saying Gobert is arguably a top 5 player in the NBA right now. Although I disagree with this, this undoubtedly shows Gobert's progress not only from the injuries, but also from looking like he wasn't mentally there and hungry earlier in the season. Glad to see him back in this form. He's fun to watch.

Also, Synder's coaching is damn near impeccable. I think the part that makes him a great coach is the players truly like him and are completely bought into him. This also shows how big of a pos Hayward was.
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Maybe top 10, but he'll never get credit for that. Definitely not for the entire season, but over the last stretch of games he's been amazing. Never seen a player dominate a game so much without scoring. It's like he's a black hole down there and just affects everything on every play. Thibs called him a "defensive system unto himself" and that is very true.
 
LifeOnaPlate said:
Rudy's been catching the ball in pick and roll traffic situations more frequently lately...
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With Rudy you just have to let him keep trying stuff like that even if it’s not working. Keep making those passes to him. His attitude and work ethic are such that I always believe he will master his weaknesses more often than not.
 
Quin's Murderface said:
He needs to get the ball more. This team has been much worse at delivering catchable passes to him. I can excuse Donovan for some of this becuase he's still learning how to read those situations but the rest of the guys have to be better. He should be getting 16PPG easy just on rim dives and good passes. They have been available and guys just aren't throwing them or are throwing them badly. When Gobert is more engaged offensively he somehow seems to play with even more intensity defensively.
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This depends entirely on the opponent defensive coverage scheme. Sometimes they are slacking off the 3 and sinking into the paint but retaining a position to recover. The Gobert pnr has problems in that situation so the Jazz rely on a lot of hard threes at times.
 
franklin said:
This depends entirely on the opponent defensive coverage scheme. Sometimes they are slacking off the 3 and sinking into the paint but retaining a position to recover. The Gobert pnr has problems in that situation so the Jazz rely on a lot of hard threes at times.
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I mean yeah it depends on that and also on the ability of the PG to be a scoring threat (or the PnR ball handler I guess). There are obviously 4 points of pressure. The threat of a shot if the defender goes under, the threat of a drive that leads to help, the threat of the roll (or the pop with some guys) and then the threat of the spacers/cutters. The Jazz have had a bunch of times this year where Gobert was the only legit threat on the floor or the last threat (The spacers) had one or two non shooters as well. When that happens it's tough because teams can cheat and just make Rubio shoot it.

So theoretically if that is happening a dynamic PnR ball handler will force the help in some way or score. Teams have been comically letting Rubio just have open layups all game at times this year. There was a stretch where he was making them much more often and that was when the offense took off. I think the other thing that is often happening is teams are switching the guard on to Gobert and then when he goes down low he isn't getting the ball. I think he needs to get the ball much more in that situation.

Obviously there are a lot of moving parts there, but even with all that there are still a lot of times when players aren't making the pass to him when he's open or especially this year they are throwing really bad lob passes. Rudy was also dropping more early in the year, and didn't look as agile after the first injury.
 
Quin's Murderface said:
I mean yeah it depends on that and also on the ability of the PG to be a scoring threat (or the PnR ball handler I guess). There are obviously 4 points of pressure. The threat of a shot if the defender goes under, the threat of a drive that leads to help, the threat of the roll (or the pop with some guys) and then the threat of the spacers/cutters. The Jazz have had a bunch of times this year where Gobert was the only legit threat on the floor or the last threat (The spacers) had one or two non shooters as well. When that happens it's tough because teams can cheat and just make Rubio shoot it.

So theoretically if that is happening a dynamic PnR ball handler will force the help in some way or score. Teams have been comically letting Rubio just have open layups all game at times this year. There was a stretch where he was making them much more often and that was when the offense took off. I think the other thing that is often happening is teams are switching the guard on to Gobert and then when he goes down low he isn't getting the ball. I think he needs to get the ball much more in that situation.

Obviously there are a lot of moving parts there, but even with all that there are still a lot of times when players aren't making the pass to him when he's open or especially this year they are throwing really bad lob passes. Rudy was also dropping more early in the year, and didn't look as agile after the first injury.
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Ingles as well. I was thinking more about the early January Charlotte defense where Utah just couldn't get anything done inside, but Gobert was out and Favors in. The offense in that game was so damn ugly. Look at the assist numbers. They basically say the Jazz threw the ball around the perimeter until someone could jack up a 3. Favors got talent but Gobert is becoming a roll beast.
 
Archie Moses said:
I heard Locke on the radio saying Gobert is arguably a top 5 player in the NBA right now. Although I disagree with this, this undoubtedly shows Gobert's progress not only from the injuries, but also from looking like he wasn't mentally there and hungry earlier in the season. Glad to see him back in this form. He's fun to watch.

Also, Synder's coaching is damn near impeccable. I think the part that makes him a great coach is the players truly like him and are completely bought into him. This also shows how big of a pos Hayward was.
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We should probably trade him
 
Archie is the vessel for two of the greatest whiff-takes... ever?

-Mitchell isn't athletic or good
-The Jazz should seriously consider trading Gobert cuz he sucks

I'll try to remember to pull up the threads when my addiction to coming to this site/the Jazz that is mostly destructive to my life has me more by the balls than it does right now.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Archie is the vessel for two of the greatest whiff-takes... ever?

-Mitchell isn't athletic or good
-The Jazz should seriously consider trading Gobert cuz he sucks

I'll try to remember to pull up the threads when my addiction to coming to this site/the Jazz that is mostly destructive to my life has me more by the balls than it does right now.
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Again, quote me. Your reading sucks ***. Must be nice to read things according to a **** agenda.

Quote me, brah.
 
Archie Moses said:
Gobert/Hood/Ingles/Mitchell/Sefolosha net rating +60 - Played a combined total of 4 minutes together.

Gobert/Burks/Ingles/Mitchell/Jerebko net rating - Played a combined total of 8 minutes together.

Gobert/Rubio/Mitchell/Ingles/Sefolosha - Played a combined total of 6 minutes together.

Basically, the best net ratings Gobert has are from very small sample sizes with lineups the Jazz rarely use.

When you say Gobert was arguably a top ten player last year, who is that according to? You as a Jazz fan. Has he created something on the defensive end hardly anyone call do? Yes, with that said, he didn't even win DPOTY. Show me a link to any article where a beat writer, espn, SI, reddit/realgm debates where people say Gobert was a top 10 player. If you think he was, you're wearing homer glasses imo.

If you could pick one, who'd you take. They both have very similar 4 year contracts. Anthony Davis or Rudy Gobert? No one would do that trade because only one of those guys is considered, by many, a top 10 player in the world. Rudy hasn't even been an All-star. If you are a top 10 player in the world, you do not get snubbed from the All Star game. I still think Rudy was an All Star level player last year though.

At the end of the day, I just feel like Gobert isn't untouchable and he's severely overrated by many Jazz fans. I can think of trades I'd pull the trigger on and would work. I'm sure the Jazz would listen to a legitimate offer made for Rudy. I don't think they'd offer him, but I'm not naive enough to think they wouldn't listen to offers that made sense.

Here's a trade that would work I'd absolutely consider, would you?

Lakers trade Brook Lopez (1 year left on his contract), Kyle Kuzma, Zubac and their 2018 second round pick for Gobert and Tony Bradley.

I'd consider this trade because Kuzma looks like a legit play-maker who can defend many different positions, spread the floor and is a threat at the rim as well. He'd be a nice player to build our future with Mitchell and he's younger than Gobert. Plus, since Lopez's contract is only one year, we'd have a lot more options we could do by moving players and acquiring draft picks.
Lastly, I think Zubac could be a really nice player in this league for a long time. I don't even think he's 20.
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Quin's Murderface said:
Maybe top 10...
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He finished #2 association-wide in Win Shares last season:

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