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Rudy Gobert - 2015/2016 Defensive Player Of The Year Push

Jazz have held 11 of their last 15 opponents to 85 points or less.

Only the Bucks have done so as many times all season (16 times).

Per Utah Jazz Twitter.
 
silesian said:
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That would be a good argument if someone were advocating that you close your eyes and use stats only. But since no one is saying that your point is hard to find. Any serious NBA mind understands that each stat has limits and to use it blindly is utterly stupid. Not just basketball.

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Enlightened minds use stats to build off of their natural insights, not to replace them as you suggest. So in this case, is one believes Zeller he sucks on D, you may want to go back and test and reconsider your belief. He may not be at the top, but this stat is probably telling you something -- at least directionally.

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When you pose a simplistic either A (watch games) or B (look at stats), this is a false choice and one that no serious person would consider.

And to your question: seriously would I choose Zeller over Gobert? I reply, "durrrr, yup, because that is what the numbers say and I refuse to think about anything but the numbers" (sarcasm)

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Finally, you did not answer my question: is there a better stat that is an overall indicator of defensive prowess? Because unless you do advocate using NO defensive stats, then I assume you must look at SOME defensive stats. tick tock.
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There isn't one defensive statistic that will tell you defensive prowess. In fact, the best defense doesn't even show up in the stat column. And that's essentially being able to stay in front of your man, and challenge shots. If you try to use any stat to qualify a defensive statistic such as defensive real plus minus, then it can be easily skewed depending on who your teammates are, what schemes you are running, how good your offense is, etc...


All I said was that list sucked. Which it did. It indicated that Zeller is a better defender than Gobert. It also indicated that Gobert was at the bottom of that list, when in fact, he quite possibly could be the best defender in the entire league. I believe he is.

So did that list do us any good to look at it? Probably not.
 
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Hack said:
There isn't one defensive statistic that will tell you defensive prowess. In fact, the best defense doesn't even show up in the stat column. And that's essentially being able to stay in front of your man,
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They actually do have metrics to examine how strong a player is at staying in front of their man. It's called "keep in front percent" - and Dante has been in the top 4 of all guards (SGs and PGs) for the past month.
 
Flc said:
They actually do have metrics to examine how strong a player is at staying in front of their man. It's called "keep in front percent" - and Dante has been in the top 4 of all guards (SGs and PGs) for the past month.
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Interesting... I didn't know that. I would be more inclined to rely on that to help me determine a good defensive player. Since its nearly impossible to watch every player every game. But I would still like to get a look at what the player is doing, and how they are doing it.
 
Hack said:
Interesting... I didn't know that. I would be more inclined to rely on that to help me determine a good defensive player. Since its nearly impossible to watch every player every game. But I would still like to get a look at what the player is doing, and how they are doing it.
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Oh yeah, totally agree. There has to be a combination of metrics and observation (eye-test, scouting, coaching, etc.) I like to think of it this way: if you're trying to get somewhere, metrics act like the subway to get you in the right neighborhood, and observation acts like the subsequent walking/bus you take to get you from the general neighborhood to your specific address.
 
Flc said:
They actually do have metrics to examine how strong a player is at staying in front of their man. It's called "keep in front percent" - and Dante has been in the top 4 of all guards (SGs and PGs) for the past month.
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Where do you find that?

Also, where does Rudy rank on that?

The problem with that being a statistic you can rely on is that it doesn't say how well you are challenging shots as well.

I suppose that if you used every single analytic out there you could find a way to say who the best defender is. But wouldn't that just take a whole lot of time? And wouldn't be easier to just use your eyes if you know what you are doing and come to a conclusion a lot quicker?
 
Hack said:
So did that list do us any good to look at it? Probably not.
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Yes, we get that you think that this stat does no good at all. It is probably pure coincidence that 8/10 all NBA defense players were in the top 10% for their position.
 
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Hack said:
In fact, the best defense doesn't even show up in the stat column. And that's essentially being able to stay in front of your man, and challenge shots.
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I was listening to Quin talk about how he coaches defense, he agrees with you. Solid defense has very little to do with communicating, off ball defense, rotations, help defense, taking away passing lanes, ability to close, blocking out, timing rebounds, timing blocks, taking a charge, etc.

Just stay in front of you man and don't worry about all that other trivial stuff.

That's all he teaches. It gets really boring in the film sessions.
 
silesian said:
I was listening to Quin talk about how he coaches defense, he agrees with you. Solid defense has very little to do with communicating, off ball defense, rotations, help defense, taking away passing lanes, ability to close, blocking out, timing rebounds, timing blocks, taking a charge, etc.

Just stay in front of you man and don't worry about all that other trivial stuff.

That's all he teaches. It gets really boring in the film sessions.
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You are right.

Good job
 
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