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Rudy Gobert has got to go

Saint Cy of JFC said:
Its not hard to go to nba reference and see positive 5 man lineups with Gobert.
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Well duh. Of course there would be 5 man lineups with gobert on them that would be good.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Lmao, do you really think every lineup used this year that has Rudy in it has been bad?
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I think Archie needs to take a course involving causality.

Is the Favors-Gobert-Rubio-Ingles-Mitchell lineup atrocious because of Gobert?
Is the Favors-Burks-Ingles-Jerebko-Mitchell lineup so good because of Favors?

Is level of competition a factor?

How would a Gobert-Burks-Ingles-Jerebo-Mitchell lineup fare against the same level of competition?

Gobert critics fail to acknowledge that a fair comparison just can't be made. Gobert is playing in lineups featuring 2 centers, with a PG who shoots effectively maybe once in 5-7 games. And look at Favors' stats during those same games: not very good. Favors suddenly sees his stats greatly improve against weaker opponents, primarily at home, and when there is an additional 3PT threat on the court. Hmmm, very interesting.
 
stitches said:
This is a new phenomenon I'm seeing more and more. It must be given a name, since I don't think it has been identified so far but the signs are eerily similar in every case. It happened last year with Favors, now it's happening with Hood and Gobert and the very fact that it's happening with Gobert, who just last year was arguably a top 10 player in the league suggests that it is indeed a phenomenon with the fans and not some random occurrence. It's the phenomenon of blaming injured players for under-performance as if it's their skill and game that has diminished in some catastrophic way rather than their bodies not being able to function for the duration of the recovery. It's disregarding years upon years of production on very high level in favor of a handful of games playing injured and/or while recovering from injury as if the players just woke up one day and had forgotten how to play basketball. Trade Gobert? Are you ****ing serious? Throw in Hood like he's some late second rounderer with 500K cash considerations value. Get your **** together, Jazz fans.
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Trading him would be insane (unless there was a sort of haul that he wouldn't get, like a Harden or whatever).

I'm just saying as the team is constructed the team seems to play better without him this year. I've also admitted the sample size is small, and that say he hadn't got hurt that the team would look great with him in another 5-10 games or whatever.

Still, the team as constructed now isn't going to win a title, so the coaching staff and FA has to find a way to build a team that plays to both Rudy's and Mitchell's strengths, and to get those players who can do that. Right now it just isn't there, or at least that's what the early results show.
 
Nate505 said:
Still, the team as constructed now isn't going to win a title, so the coaching staff and FA has to find a way to build a team that plays to both Rudy's and Mitchell's strengths, and to get those players who can do that. Right now it just isn't there, or at least that's what the early results show.
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I'd like to see a Mitchell-Hood(or Burks)-Ingles-Johnson(or Jerebko)-Gobert lineup.

Just need to send Rubio to the bench and separate Favors and Gobert. Quin isn't willing to do that, even though he espouses a 1-4 strategy, so the Jazz struggle with the 2-3.
 
Jack Strop said:
I think Archie needs to take a course involving causality.

Is the Favors-Gobert-Rubio-Ingles-Mitchell lineup atrocious because of Gobert?
Is the Favors-Burks-Ingles-Jerebko-Mitchell lineup so good because of Favors?

Is level of competition a factor?

How would a Gobert-Burks-Ingles-Jerebo-Mitchell lineup fare against the same level of competition?

Gobert critics fail to acknowledge that a fair comparison just can't be made. Gobert is playing in lineups featuring 2 centers, with a PG who shoots effectively maybe once in 5-7 games. And look at Favors' stats during those same games: not very good. Favors suddenly sees his stats greatly improve against weaker opponents, primarily at home, and when there is an additional 3PT threat on the court. Hmmm, very interesting.
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While you think I need to take a course on causality, I think you need to read the thread.

I think people are more upset about what they think I've said in this thread rather than what I have actually said.

I'll sum it up cause I know reading is hard for most people on here.

Gobert is my favorite player on the Jazz. He wouldn't be my first choice to be traded - that would be Favors and/or Rubio. That said, since this lineup clearly does not work with him too, I'd be open to trade him if the right pieces were offered. Not shocking, cupcakes. Not shocking at all...
 
Jack Strop said:
I'd like to see a Mitchell-Hood(or Burks)-Ingles-Johnson(or Jerebko)-Gobert lineup.

Just need to send Rubio to the bench and separate Favors and Gobert. Quin isn't willing to do that, even though he espouses a 1-4 strategy, so the Jazz struggle with the 2-3.
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I would love to see the starters be Gobert/Jerebko/Ingles/Hood/Mitchell and see the bench be Favors/JJ/Thabo/Burks/Rubio, though Udoh/Royce/Neto should see some minutes when guys struggle.

I'm guessing the egos of Favors and Rubio would be stung a little bit, even though I don't think they have large egos per se. Still many players see the bench as a demotion, when to me minutes played is the ultimate stat.
 
I have a simple question for the guys who want to trade Gobert. What team do you trade him to and for what?

I'm racking my brain trying to come up with the right team with the right pieces in the unlikely event that DL actually considers trading him. Here are the only teams I can think that make sense, who would crave that paint enforcer and have anything of value worth it to us:

Golden State - I find it very, very doubtful they would give up Klay and that's what it would take. Their picks are terrible.
Cleveland - Bringing back Love for Gobert is such a lateral move for an older player. Maybe if they include the Brooklyn pick.
Portland - do we want Lillard next to Mitchell? McCollum?
New Orleans - Gobert next to AD, Cousins to a 3rd team and we get a ton of picks and/or maybe a young player?

I can't think of another realistic spot. So in other words, outside of New Orleans, there is no "realistic" scenario unless our front office loves Kevin Love. Other teams simply don't have assets or don't have the desperate need for an elite rim protector. For example, a team like Atlanta or Sacramento aren't going to trade all of their picks for a guy who is only going to help them barely make the playoffs. Half the teams in the league are in a slow rebuild right now.
 
Holy smokes dudes. It's been mentioned that this roster doesn't suit Rudy so let's get rid of our arguably top 10 player last season, who hasn't been healthy for a good portion this season, was rushed back etc and is now out again.

You don't get rid of your franchise player in favour of a roster filled with players who might not be here next season or players who are simply put, role playes, and are replaceable.

If the player does not suit the vision of the franchise, then maybe you have a point, but he is the biggest cog of our identity, and what the Jazz stand for.

I'm all for creating discussion and debate, but this is now a little comical.
 
LoPo said:
I have a simple question for the guys who want to trade Gobert. What team do you trade him to and for what?

I'm racking my brain trying to come up with the right team with the right pieces in the unlikely event that DL actually considers trading him. Here are the only teams I can think that make sense, who would crave that paint enforcer and have anything of value worth it to us:

Golden State - I find it very, very doubtful they would give up Klay and that's what it would take. Their picks are terrible.
Cleveland - Bringing back Love for Gobert is such a lateral move for an older player. Maybe if they include the Brooklyn pick.
Portland - do we want Lillard next to Mitchell? McCollum?
New Orleans - Gobert next to AD, Cousins to a 3rd team and we get a ton of picks and/or maybe a young player?

I can't think of another realistic spot. So in other words, outside of New Orleans, there is no "realistic" scenario unless our front office loves Kevin Love. Other teams simply don't have assets or don't have the desperate need for an elite rim protector. For example, a team like Atlanta or Sacramento aren't going to trade all of their picks for a guy who is only going to help them barely make the playoffs. Half the teams in the league are in a slow rebuild right now.
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I wouldn't mind Lillard next to Mithell at all. I think they could make it work better than Favors next to Gobert. Just gotta bench/trade Rubio as well for that to be realistic.
 
DasJazz said:
I wouldn't mind Lillard next to Mithell at all. I think they could make it work better than Favors next to Gobert. Just gotta bench/trade Rubio as well for that to be realistic.
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I just don't see Portland trading Lillard. And do we even do that? Lillard and McCollum aren't working all that well so why would Mitchell and Lillard seem to work well? That would be a blockbuster trade, but I don't think either team has the guts to pull the trigger.
 
No way in hell should we trade Gobert. He loves Salt Lake City and the Jazz. Aren't many of these types out there.
 
Mitchell and Gobert are the building blocks. You don’t jettison Gobert because of this injury. The two of them have the potential to lead the Jazz to yje title. And for that matter, yeah, I’m interested in offering Jabari Parker a hefty contract. Gotta try.
 
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