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Rudy Gobert selected to third team All-NBA

yamers said:
The supermax was designed to help small market teams retain players, i cant believe they didnt do the math on how itll absolutely **** the salary cap up for a small market team.

Same situation in portland with dame.
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The cap charge is the only big issue imo… I think they should only have the cap hit be the regular max... the added payment is just the bonus for staying put. With vet minimums they do something similar... they get a little higher amount than the actual cap hit...

There is some WTF did we do momentum and I could see a retro active change in some form or fashion.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Sad that sports writers value Gobert more than the coaches do.
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Who opinion holds more value?
A sportswriter who most likely never played hoops or the coaches who have a deeper understanding of the game. Gobert a solid player but he isn't a top 20 player in Today's game. I would cash in now if I was Jazz. PRoblem is I doubt you get back what you have put In with Gobert but giving him a max is going be a mistake we will all see a Few years down the road.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
The supermax hasn't existed long enough for someone to get $60 million annually yet. Why exactly are you so hung up on the last year of the deal, where players hardly ever live up to the value? The 6 seasons before that count too. We have no idea what the league, Jazz, or salary cap will look like in Rudy's age 33 season, so I'm not super worried about it. My priority is keeping the asset.
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Doesn't have to be 60 million.
Are there examples of players getting supermax contacts that go until they are 33 where it's been successful? I legit have no idea.
Did Kevin love get a supermax? Who are some players who have gotten it? How has it worked out?

I'm curious if the supermax ever works out well with older players.
Or younger players even for that matter.

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fishonjazz said:
Doesn't have to be 60 million.
Are there examples of players getting supermax contacts that go until they are 33 where it's been successful? I legit have no idea.
Did Kevin love get a supermax? Who are some players who have gotten it? How has it worked out?

I'm curious if the supermax ever works out well with older players.
Or younger players even for that matter.

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Rudy is not old.

Steph and Harden have gotten it, going okay so far. Wall got one, disaster.

Can't really think of many more tbh. It's a fairly new thing. Gonna start happening a lot though. Kemba is 29 and will be offered a Supermax. Rudy's will look like a great contract next to that. Lillard will get one, he's older than Rudy right now.

This is the cost of doing business.

Edit, maybe Harden's wasn't a legit supermax, because Houston didn't draft him? Regardless it was a huge ****ing contract.
 
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Knowledgeofmine said:
Who opinion holds more value?
A sportswriter who most likely never played hoops or the coaches who have a deeper understanding of the game. Gobert a solid player but he isn't a top 20 player in Today's game. I would cash in now if I was Jazz. PRoblem is I doubt you get back what you have put In with Gobert but giving him a max is going be a mistake we will all see a Few years down the road.
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Your right!! He’s not top 20, he’s top ****ing 10!!
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Rudy is not old.

Steph and Harden have gotten it, going okay so far. Wall got one, disaster.

Can't really think of many more tbh. It's a fairly new thing. Gonna start happening a lot though. Kemba is 29 and will be offered a Supermax. Rudy's will look like a great contract next to that. Lillard will get one, he's older than Rudy right now.

This is the cost of doing business.
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the Kemba situation is much worse than ours too... he is now eligible... Rudy will be eligible next offseason for the 4 year extension. If he is unwilling to take a slightly lower supermax you could trade him... but worst case you offer the 4 year supermax and he takes it. Its like 4 years and $200M and ends when he's 32.. the extra year and extra $60M is a killer. IF he didn't take the 4 year extension its a signal he may leave... you move him then rather than losing him for nothing.

Really no need to worry here.
 
Knowledgeofmine said:
Who opinion holds more value?
A sportswriter who most likely never played hoops or the coaches who have a deeper understanding of the game. Gobert a solid player but he isn't a top 20 player in Today's game. I would cash in now if I was Jazz. PRoblem is I doubt you get back what you have put In with Gobert but giving him a max is going be a mistake we will all see a Few years down the road.
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Also, pretty dumb to advocate trading him then state we can’t get good value. If the jazz were dumb enough to do that, what does that do to Mitchell? This completely ruins team chemistry, and any chance we have at signing top free agents.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Rudy is not old.

Steph and Harden have gotten it, going okay so far. Wall got one, disaster.

Can't really think of many more tbh. It's a fairly new thing. Gonna start happening a lot though. Kemba is 29 and will be offered a Supermax. Rudy's will look like a great contract next to that. Lillard will get one, he's older than Rudy right now.

This is the cost of doing business.

Edit, maybe Harden's wasn't a legit supermax, because Houston didn't draft him? Regardless it was a huge ****ing contract.
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Steph is a great example. Thanks.
Maybe teams (not just the jazz) are better off though not paying 1 player that percentage of the money unless they are the type of player that can carry you to a title almost by themselves. I'm talking top 20 player of all time types.

Does anyone think it's going to work out for Charlotte to pay kemba a super max? How about Lillard? I don't think it will.

I just think paying players the supermax that aren't top 5 guys won't be successful. I guess we will see soon. Do you think teams giving super max to non top 5 guys will work out for those teams?

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fishonjazz said:
Steph is a great example. Thanks.
Maybe teams (not just the jazz) are better off though not paying 1 player that percentage of the money unless they are the type of player that can carry you to a title almost by themselves. I'm talking top 20 player of all time types.

Does anyone think it's going to work out for Charlotte to pay kemba a super max? How about Lillard? I don't think it will.

I just think paying players the supermax that aren't top 5 guys won't be successful. I guess we will see soon. Do you think teams giving super max to non top 5 guys will work out for those teams?

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But you are talking in a vacuum instead of reality. Do the Blazers have any reasonable course of action besides paying Lillard? I say no.

If you disagree, can you chart a reasonable path for them that makes sense that doesn't involve paying Lillard? It will be a similar situation for Gobert.


My opinion is that you are way to caught up on the number, once you're over the cap then you don't have to worry about the pockets of the billionaire owners. Regardless of the exact number, any future Jazz team where Rudy is on his third contract, and Mitchell isn't on a rookie one; has very very little cap flexibility. That is our future situation, unless you want to start over completely.
 
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Bawse Dawg said:
But you are talking in a vacuum instead of reality. Do the Blazers have any reasonable course of action besides paying Lillard? I say no.

If you disagree, can you chart a reasonable path for them that makes sense that doesn't involve paying Lillard? It will be a similar situation for Gobert.


My opinion is that you are way to caught up on the number, once you're over the cap then you don't have to worry about the pockets of the billionaire owners. Regardless of the exact number, any future Jazz team where Rudy is on his third contract, and Mitchell isn't on a rookie one; has very very little cap flexibility. That is our future situation, unless you want to start over completely.
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Sounds like you are saying the number doesn't matter.
So if Rudy was making 50 million per year right now we could still pursue Tobias harris? I didn't think we would be able to but maybe I'm wrong about that.

see a team with Rudy gobert or Walker or whoever needs the 3rd 4th 5th 6th etc players to be better to be a contender than a team with Steph, KD, prime LeBron etc.

I think Rudy (or any player including guys like Steph) making supermax money limits/restricts what the rest of your roster looks like. For teams with guys like Steph as their supermax guy this issue isn't as glaring (and for teams in bigger markets where better players will sacrifice some contract money) but for a team with a 15thish best player in the NBA as your supermax guy this issue might show up more.

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Bawse Dawg said:
Regardless of the exact number, any future Jazz team where Rudy is on his third contract, and Mitchell isn't on a rookie one; has very very little cap flexibility.
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This is kind of my point.


That's why I say the jazz shouldn't just be like "we will pay Rudy the supermax without a doubt" and I instead think they should look at lots of other options too including a trade. Maybe DM takes a huge leap before we have to decide to pay Rudy and then we know we have our top 5 guy and we go ahead and pay our top 15 guy (Rudy) the supermax since we can actually be a contender.

If DM doesn't improve much then being capped out without a top 5 guy probably doesn't get you to contender status.

Being capped out without a top 5 guy isn't good and should possibly be avoided.

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fishonjazz said:
Sounds like you are saying the number doesn't matter.
So if Rudy was making 50 million per year right now we could still pursue Tobias harris? I didn't think we would be able to but maybe I'm wrong about that.
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If you didn't read my post I can see how you came to this conclusion.

If Rudy was making any third contract figure we couldn't pursue Harris, our flexibility time frame is limited, no matter what. As I keep saying.

This conversation sort of has a brick wall quality to it, so I think I'll call it there. We'll see what happens. Go Jazz.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
If you didn't read my post I can see how you came to this conclusion.

If Rudy was making any third contract figure we couldn't pursue Harris, our flexibility time frame is limited, no matter what. As I keep saying.

This conversation sort of has a brick wall quality to it, so I think I'll call it there. We'll see what happens. Go Jazz.
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Fair enough.

Thank God Hayward wasn't eligible for the supermax is all I have to say.

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Holy crap, does reading this board give me a headache sometimes. Especially in the summer, when sun seems to kill what few brain cells some people have and I find myself avoiding the board.

For only the second time this millennium, we have a player with multiple All-NBA appearances and people here are talking about trading him because apparently, he may stand in the way of a championship 5 years from now. We just lost 4-1 in the first round of the playoffs, and people are suggesting trading the best player we've had in a couple of decades to chase a championship somehow? Where am I, a Knicks board? How many hypothetical championships have we got so far? More than the Knicks and the Lakers fans have accrued this summer?

And who in the world do you people think we could get for Rudy? Giannis? Kawhi?
 
JimLes said:
Holy crap, does reading this board give me a headache sometimes. Especially in the summer, when sun seems to kill what few brain cells some people have and I find myself avoiding the board.

For only the second time this millennium, we have a player with multiple All-NBA appearances and people here are talking about trading him because apparently, he may stand in the way of a championship 5 years from now. We just lost 4-1 in the first round of the playoffs, and people are suggesting trading the best player we've had in a couple of decades to chase a championship somehow? Where am I, a Knicks board? How many hypothetical championships have we got so far? More than the Knicks and the Lakers fans have accrued this summer?

And who in the world do you people think we could get for Rudy? Giannis? Kawhi?
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We trade him for picks, because he’s in the way financially. When those picks mature, we trade Mitchell for picks, because he’ll be in the way of keeping all the guys we got with the Rudy picks. Rinse and repeat.

NM. **** it. Let’s just call it for what it is. DL has painted us into a corner where about 85% of what becomes of the Gobert/Mitchell era rests on this off-season, regardless of what “let’s hold hands and have patience” crowd says.
 
infection said:
When those picks mature, we trade Mitchell for picks.
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Not necessarily. Is DM an MVP candidate at this point? If so then I think the supermax is given without question.

Is he the same player as kemba walker? Then maybe you trade him. Maybe not. Depends on lots of stuff. But you definitely look at all your options.

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I don't feel great about some writers setting the market for my players and determining what they get paid.

I think they each team should determine what they pay their players instead of some writers who have nothing to do with the team.
If you think your player is a supermax player then give them a supermax contract. If not then don't.

The question is how should a team determine who is a supermax player? Should they let some writers who have nothing to do with their team determine that for the team? Idk. Me personally, I would determine a supermax player to be a player that has been, is currently, or I think will be in the league MVP discussion.

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We've got a pretty solid deck right now! I can't emphasize the need for obtaining just a couple more (2) decent 3 point shooters out there to add to our deck and keeping the core unit of our current players under contract, including of course, Rubio! Keeping Favors should also be a must as he can give Rudy some rest and they play pretty good together anyway! When you win 50 games with our pathetic start there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER to tear down the team and make wholesale changes! The league can be had with the deck we've got and a few adjustments in our roster that will increase our offense sufficiency by a factor of 5! Let the other teams make wholesale changes and that increases our chance of gaining the top seed by a factor of 10! We increase our 3 point shooting by about 5% we will lead the league in scoring, defense and games won!
 
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