Schooling
- Thread starter QuinSnydersHair
- Start date
Whatevs bro .. don't hate me cuz I puts periods in the middle of sentences and have random Caps
Game6Conley
Well-Known Member
I don't know the rules of grammar... If you're trying to persuade people to do something, or buy something, it seems to me you should use their language, the language they use every day, the language in which they think. We try to write in the vernacular.
-David Ogilvy
Statistics is the grammar of science.
-Karl Pearson
-David Ogilvy
Statistics is the grammar of science.
-Karl Pearson
CONAN
Well-Known Member
The family support is the most important thing. Your kids will run into bad teachers throughout their schooling life no matter where they are. A good, supportive homelife will overcome a lot. That's researched and common sense. That's the main factor not where they went to school.
Having said that, in the younger grades where a kid is with one teacher the whole year it can really be detrimental to be with a "bad" teacher. And sometimes it's not the teacher's fault or the kid's fault. They just don't mesh for whatever reason. So a change of scenery sometimes helps there.
As far as public versus private versus charter you can find fault with all three. Personally, I like the whole experience kids get at public high schools. There is a stigma with private school kids and it's still true to a point. For example, I can pick out my kid's friends that went to private school (usually very smart but socially off). That is a stereotype and plenty break it but still true to a point.
In high school it isn't so important because kids have several teachers so no matter where you go you will probably find teachers they don't like and teachers they love.
But try to stabilize as much as possible. It's not good when parents blame the system and switch schools several times trying to find that system that does all the parenting for them. But sometimes you gotta make a change.
Good luck.
Having said that, in the younger grades where a kid is with one teacher the whole year it can really be detrimental to be with a "bad" teacher. And sometimes it's not the teacher's fault or the kid's fault. They just don't mesh for whatever reason. So a change of scenery sometimes helps there.
As far as public versus private versus charter you can find fault with all three. Personally, I like the whole experience kids get at public high schools. There is a stigma with private school kids and it's still true to a point. For example, I can pick out my kid's friends that went to private school (usually very smart but socially off). That is a stereotype and plenty break it but still true to a point.
In high school it isn't so important because kids have several teachers so no matter where you go you will probably find teachers they don't like and teachers they love.
But try to stabilize as much as possible. It's not good when parents blame the system and switch schools several times trying to find that system that does all the parenting for them. But sometimes you gotta make a change.
Good luck.
I went to both private and public schools growing up...a total of 5 schools from 6th grade til graduation...and I'm a firm believer that it all depends on the kid. Some kids thrive in public schools and if that's the case then parents shouldn't force any sort of change in schools on their kids. Some kids can barely make it through a day at public school without feeling like the biggest weirdo on the planet, so in many of those cases a change in scenery is probably a wise decision.
If your kids seem happy, are doing pretty well in school, and have a solid group of friends...don't try to fix that which needs no fixing. Don't send a kid to private school just to send them to private school. Take a step back, try to figure out what makes each individual kid happy and content and put them in a situation that allows them to do what makes them happy and feel good about themselves.
For some kids that is social interaction with their friends and playing on a bunch of sports teams (while still doing fairly well in school, of course) and for others studying for 5 hours a night and getting straight A's can be what makes them tick. Nobody wins when you try to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Just my 2 cents...
If your kids seem happy, are doing pretty well in school, and have a solid group of friends...don't try to fix that which needs no fixing. Don't send a kid to private school just to send them to private school. Take a step back, try to figure out what makes each individual kid happy and content and put them in a situation that allows them to do what makes them happy and feel good about themselves.
For some kids that is social interaction with their friends and playing on a bunch of sports teams (while still doing fairly well in school, of course) and for others studying for 5 hours a night and getting straight A's can be what makes them tick. Nobody wins when you try to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Just my 2 cents...
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys. I'm very new to this but the recent incidents I mentioned as well as a few others really leaves me feeling hopeless, at least where my kids go now, but like I said, it's a very wealthy and respected school district so maybe I'm just confused more than anything. Tomorrow, I am taking the day off from work to go visit a few private schools locally, see what they're all about, basically gather as much information about them as possible. If nothing else, it will provide my wife and I with options and we can just sit down and weigh the pros and cons.
My kids went to a charter school. Basically free, public education but with the ability for parents to have a say in what happens and administration has control of the curriculum and teachers. No union ********.
My oldest graduated high school, started college that same summer and had her bachelors by 22. My youngest graduated high school in December, 6 months early, and has started college at 17. She's on course to have her bachelors by 19.
I would never send my kids to public school.
There's also a lot of truth to what Conan says. If the parents don't give a crap, the kid likely won't either. I think that's one reason the charter school worked out so well for my kids. Lot;s of parent involvement. Typically, if a parent cares enough to find a better school for their kids, they care enough to be involved. Too many parents use the educational system for daycare and could care less what happens while they are at school as long as they don't get in trouble.
My oldest graduated high school, started college that same summer and had her bachelors by 22. My youngest graduated high school in December, 6 months early, and has started college at 17. She's on course to have her bachelors by 19.
I would never send my kids to public school.
There's also a lot of truth to what Conan says. If the parents don't give a crap, the kid likely won't either. I think that's one reason the charter school worked out so well for my kids. Lot;s of parent involvement. Typically, if a parent cares enough to find a better school for their kids, they care enough to be involved. Too many parents use the educational system for daycare and could care less what happens while they are at school as long as they don't get in trouble.
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Beantown
Well-Known Member
I agree. The real learning comes from the parents after school. By teaching them and going over their homework with them. The most learning was from my dad talking to me about what I learned in class and him helping me with homework. A school can only do so much. Both public or private.
I'm not sure I fully agree with this statement. My sister-in-law teaches at a charter school and says a fair amount of parents expect magical things to happen just because their kids are at a charter school. They don't always realize that they still need to be involved in their kids' education.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
This is not necessarily true. Depends on the charter in terms of curriculum and teachers. As far as parental involvement I just don't think your statement is true. Admins can't afford not to listen to parents.
Ya, the charter schools and private schools sometimes get better press but they don't have to put up with the kids public schools have to put up with. The demographics aren't even close to the same. And that's fine. Personally I like the wide variety my kids experience at public schools (variety being a relative term we do live in Utah after all)
Personally I think private schools are the way to go for those kids who are way into academics and not much else. Kids that know 100% what they want to do and are ready to move into that field and want top-of-the-line training. Essentially, kids that want to skip the whole traditional high school experiences and grow up ASAP. That's fine. We need those types in society.
Charter schools are just weird to me. Maybe not the schools themselves but how they are perceived. They are not private schools. Not even close. And each one is unique. They are not created equally. Some are really good but some are really bad.
Just do your research (online, in-person, and networking with parents). Most parents want to do right by their kids but be educated about it.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
That makes a big difference in Utah where it is usually closer to 30.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
This is kind of a myth (not the numbers but the idea that class size is a large factor for learning). Not saying it doesn't make a difference but it's not that much. Like .15 effect size or something.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
Definitely some exceptions out there. Wasn't talking about those.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
I did a little looking since you were so adamant in your declaration that class size doesn't really matter. This is one I found:
https://aer.sagepub.com/content/27/3/557.short
https://aer.sagepub.com/content/27/3/557.short
CONAN
Well-Known Member
That's is just one study. The stuff I was going off of was a meta-analysis (I think that's what it is called). Anyway, it isn't just one study, it is a compilation of studies (800 or so last time I checked). And again, not saying class size isn't a factor, just not as big a factor as others.
In other words, my effectiveness as a teacher is less predicated on whether I'm teaching 18 kids versus 35 kids (those are exteme numbers). It is more on the type of teaching.
For example, feedback between teachers and students has an effect size of .72. The effect size of OTRs is .6.
Class size is at .21 (above what I remembered). Here is an excerpt from the study regarding class size: 164 studies between 1980 and 2005 on the effects of reducing class size from 25 to 15 produced an average effect size of d = 0.13 (P.87)
One reason for these small effect sizes relates to teachers of smaller classes using the same teaching methods as they were using with larger classes and thus not optimizing the opportunities provided by having fewer students. Many of the more powerful influences on student learning described in this book could be more effective if the class size was smaller. There could be more (and better) feedback, more interaction with (and between) students, more diagnosis and so on.
If you really want to get into this stuff I suggest finding meta-analysis like this one (Hattie, 2009).
CONAN
Well-Known Member
Since Pearl brought it up (and made me dig) and it relates to the thread:
As far as the student goes it is found that goal-setting has an effect size of 1.44 (the highest of anything in the study)
On the homefront the socioeconomic status and home environment rank highest (.57). Socioeconomic status being parental income, education, and occupation.
The school itself is not that big a factor (i.e. admins, finances, etc.).
Accelerated curriculum is .88. Bascially pushing kids along as they achieve more providing more difficult curriculum.
As for within the classroom you have classroom management, classroom cohesion (essentially a family feel to the classroom), and peer influences all above .5. Teacher-student relationships rate very highly.
And then you have the techniques used by teachers themselves.
As far as the student goes it is found that goal-setting has an effect size of 1.44 (the highest of anything in the study)
On the homefront the socioeconomic status and home environment rank highest (.57). Socioeconomic status being parental income, education, and occupation.
The school itself is not that big a factor (i.e. admins, finances, etc.).
Accelerated curriculum is .88. Bascially pushing kids along as they achieve more providing more difficult curriculum.
As for within the classroom you have classroom management, classroom cohesion (essentially a family feel to the classroom), and peer influences all above .5. Teacher-student relationships rate very highly.
And then you have the techniques used by teachers themselves.