Science vs. Creationism

[MVP]

The Bible was written thousands of years ago by many different people. They were writing as things were at the time of their writings, when slavery was the norm and treatment of women was as slaves.
The Bible is NOT the word of god. It is the words of men, many hundreds of them written over a very long period of time.
Religious people have always taken the words of the bible and used them to suit their own ends, to justify actions that might not otherwise be acceptable. Religious people have also made their own interpretations of the words in the bible. Religion and god and the bible were all part of a way of controlling people, getting people to obey by using the threat of an almighty being watching them all the time and knowing what they were doing and if they were good they'd go somewhere nice when they died, if they were bad and didn't obey, they'd go somewhere nasty when they died.
This is what religion is about, even today and always was, it's a way of controlling people, whether for power or money, it always boils down to those things.
The churches/religions achieve their best result with people who are in 3rd world countries ( with USA as almost lonely exception) and are very simple in their understandings of things and religions find it easy to convert these people. In countries with a high standard of education people are seeing through all the lies, stories and deceit and are leaving the churches in droves.

At the end the Bible is a huge fairy story book and there is no god or gods.

 

[MVP]

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing".

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing."

"Teach the young women to be ... obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed."

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

Sure lots of respect and equality in there...

 

[One Brow]

If you start with grandpa, you've excluded great grandpa. If you start with great grandpa you've excluded gg grandpa and so forth.

Yes, grandpa has genetic information that great-grandpa does not.

But the point is you don't see new information, just reorganized information.

There is no such thing as "re-organized information". If you re-organize the storage medium on which information resides, you create new information.

 

[One Brow]

learn the meaning of duplication, and learn the difference between more and new.

When you make a copy of something you have more information, but not new information.

Again, given a single letter "k" and some measure of information, then for any chosen amount of information m, you can create a string x where the difference in information between xk and xkx is larger than m. You create more information by this duplication. This is undergraduate-level information theory stuff, not at all difficult.

 

[One Brow]

I would give a c-note to have witnessed the answers that might have been given by the pseudo-intellectuals on this board, especially AKMVP had this microphone been shoved into his face and he would have had to answer the simple question asked!

Lenski's bacteria.

 

[One Brow]

....it's STILL A MOSQUITO

Of course. Evolutionary theory teaches that a type of living thing gives rise to the same type of living thing. If it did not, that would be a miracle, not evolution.

 

[Biggs]

Congrats to the four people who kept this thread going. At what point will these four give up? This is going to keep the off-season interesting enough for me to keep coming back to Jazzfanz.

 

[carolinajazz]

The Bible was written thousands of years ago by many different people. They were writing as things were at the time of their writings, when slavery was the norm and treatment of women was as slaves.

Slavery of woman, as I pointed out clearly, was not the "norm" in the Jewish culture of Biblical times! It was the norm amongst pagans or people of the nations that did NOT follow or respect the Word of God and it's content!

The Bible is NOT the word of god. It is the words of men, many hundreds of them written over a very long period of time.

The answer is simple: “Men spoke from God.” But how did they know what to speak and what to write? The man just quoted, the apostle Simon Peter, goes on to explain that they spoke “as they were borne along by holy spirit.”—2*Peter 1:21.

For a fact, time and time again the Bible stresses that it is “the word of God.” In the 176 verses of Psalm 119 alone this point is alluded to 176 times! What makes this significant is that writers are normally interested in making known that they have written a particular work. But the men who wrote the Bible were not. All honor was to go to God. It was his book, not theirs.—1*Thessalonians 2:13; 2*Samuel 23:2.

How were these men “borne along by holy spirit”? A letter to the first-century Christian Timothy provides an answer: “All Scripture is inspired of God.” “Inspired of God” translates the Bible’s original word of the Greek text the·o′pneu·stos, which means, literally, “God-breathed.” God used his invisible active force—his holy spirit—to “breathe” his ideas into the minds of the writers.

Thus, God is the Source and Producer of the Bible. He used men to write the information down, much as a businessman uses a secretary to write a letter. The secretary writes the letter, but the letter contains the thoughts and ideas of the businessman. So it is his letter, not the secretary’s, even as the Bible is God’s Book, not the book of the men who were used to write it.

Since God created the mind, he surely did not find it hard to get in touch with the minds of his servants to provide them with the information to write. Even today a person can sit in his home and receive messages from a faraway place by means of a radio or a television set. The voices or pictures travel over long distances by the use of physical laws that God created. It is, therefore, easy to understand that the Creator, from his place far away in the heavens, could direct men to write down the information that he wanted the human family to know.

Also, this concept of “God-breathed” finds a parallel in the Biblical expression “borne along by holy spirit.” How so? “Borne along” is used in Greek with reference to ships that are moved along on a certain course by the wind. (Compare Acts 27:15,*17.) Thus, as a wind blows and moves a sailing ship, so the Bible writers thought, spoke, and wrote under God’s influence, borne along by his holy spirit as he “breathed” on them.

 

[MVP]

The answer is simple: “Men spoke from God.” But how did they know what to speak and what to write? The man just quoted, the apostle Simon Peter, goes on to explain that they spoke “as they were borne along by holy spirit.”—2*Peter 1:21.

For a fact, time and time again the Bible stresses that it is “the word of God.” In the 176 verses of Psalm 119 alone this point is alluded to 176 times! What makes this significant is that writers are normally interested in making known that they have written a particular work. But the men who wrote the Bible were not. All honor was to go to God. It was his book, not theirs.—1*Thessalonians 2:13; 2*Samuel 23:2.

How were these men “borne along by holy spirit”? A letter to the first-century Christian Timothy provides an answer: “All Scripture is inspired of God.” “Inspired of God” translates the Bible’s original word of the Greek text the·o′pneu·stos, which means, literally, “God-breathed.” God used his invisible active force—his holy spirit—to “breathe” his ideas into the minds of the writers.

Thus, God is the Source and Producer of the Bible. He used men to write the information down, much as a businessman uses a secretary to write a letter. The secretary writes the letter, but the letter contains the thoughts and ideas of the businessman. So it is his letter, not the secretary’s, even as the Bible is God’s Book, not the book of the men who were used to write it.

Since God created the mind, he surely did not find it hard to get in touch with the minds of his servants to provide them with the information to write. Even today a person can sit in his home and receive messages from a faraway place by means of a radio or a television set. The voices or pictures travel over long distances by the use of physical laws that God created. It is, therefore, easy to understand that the Creator, from his place far away in the heavens, could direct men to write down the information that he wanted the human family to know.

Also, this concept of “God-breathed” finds a parallel in the Biblical expression “borne along by holy spirit.” How so? “Borne along” is used in Greek with reference to ships that are moved along on a certain course by the wind. (Compare Acts 27:15,*17.) Thus, as a wind blows and moves a sailing ship, so the Bible writers thought, spoke, and wrote under God’s influence, borne along by his holy spirit as he “breathed” on them.

This fairy tale may be believable in medieval times. To believe it in 21 century is just sad.

 

[VINYLONE]

@ Carolinajazz: I have a question for you. Does god ever speak to you? Do you ever hear or have you ever heard his voice in your head?

 

[LogGrad98]

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing".

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing."

"Teach the young women to be ... obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed."

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

Sure lots of respect and equality in there...

Yep. Words to live by.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

This fairy tale may be believable in medieval times. To believe it in 21 century is just sad.

Common theme of those that don't believe in God, said to marginalize those that do believe and their stance.

Part of the reason I only said I completely disagree with you, yet offered no explanation.
You are already set on what you will not believe just as much as I am confident in what I do believe.
A petty argument of name calling and marginalization is a waste of time and rude.
I'm trying to stay out of that stuff, semi successfully. I have my moments.

 

[MVP]

You are already set on what you will not believe .

I am a man of science, rationale and logic. Show me scientific proof ( or any proof ) of God or that Bible is word of God and I will believe. You can pray to your God to talk to me and make me believer as his "word of God" just makes me shake head and laugh.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I am a man of science, rationale and logic. Show me scientific proof ( or any proof ) of God or that Bible is word of God and I will believe. You can pray to your God to talk to me and make me believer as his "word of God" just makes me shake head and laugh.

Catch 22 it seems.

God asks us to have faith in Him and test his word to get our answers.
What sort of test would it be if He gave us our answer and then we did what was asked?
It's not faith then, but knowledge. It's pretty easy to do what we know is the way to do something.
Also we don't learn anything about ourselves that way.
I believe we are here to figure out who we are, and learn how to be like Him while we are here.
If we refuse to do something until it's proven we won't progress, learn, or grow.

Also if everyone did nothing until they knew with scientific proof that something was the best/right thing to do, nobody would do anything.

You talk about scientific proof and being a man of science, and yet you refuse to apply those same methods to a belief in God.
Test out the "hypothesis/theory" (in your mind) of God by doing the things taught in the books claimed to be the word of God.
Observe, record, adjust, retest, rinse, repeat. (has to be sincere)

It's easy to sit and do nothing and say it's not true, it's a fairy tale, marginalize, and point the finger and laugh.

It's a little tougher to put your money where your mouth is and try the experiment in true 100% sincerity and honesty.

You say show me proof... but what you are really saying is I don't want to, you can't make me. That's cool, you decision.

 

[MVP]

You talk about scientific proof and being a man of science, and yet you refuse to apply those same methods to a belief in God.
Test out the "hypothesis/theory" (in your mind) of God by doing the things taught in the books claimed to be the word of God.
Observe, record, adjust, retest, rinse, repeat. (has to be sincere)
.

Been there, done that, my mind just rejects it. Unfortunately God can't be proven same way as scientific theory. Same as Loch Ness monster. Some claim that they saw it. No proof though.

 

[PearlWatson]

Again, given a single letter "k" and some measure of information, then for any chosen amount of information m, you can create a string x where the difference in information between xk and xkx is larger than m. You create more information by this duplication. This is undergraduate-level information theory stuff, not at all difficult.

learn the difference between more and new

 

[PearlWatson]

Been there, done that, my mind just rejects it.

Close minded.

 

[PearlWatson]

If you re-organize the storage medium on which information resides, you create new information.

"mutations" are re-organized information not new information

only an intelligent force can create new information

 

[PearlWatson]

I think in hundred years or less extinction of "creationism" is bound to happen. It is only present in small parts in USA anyway... in rest of the world it is already extinct. We should preserve it in museums for future generations to laugh at...

Sadly the joke will be on you and your fellow atheists far sooner than that, my friend.

 

[MVP]

Sadly the joke will be on you and your fellow atheists far sooner than that, my friend.

Do you have any evidence of that? Last polls and surveys show believe in Bible as word of God is steadily declining even in USA. Especially among young people. And number of atheists are steadily increasing.
So what will happen when old geezers will die off? I bet on opposite. Better build one more museum