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Should #47 hang from the rafters at ESA

Gameface said:
He has a physical intelligence that is hard to put a finger on, but that I think is probably unmatched in the NBA.
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....."physical intelligence?" Give me the Funk and Wagnals definition of that!!! Klinko was as dumb as a rock when it came to basketball intellegence.....well maybe not quite that dumb.
 
I love AK, I don't want him back unless for vet minimum, I don't want his jersey in the rafters. Thank you.
 
vslice02 said:
If one can remember as far back as 2004, it made quite a bit of sense. AK was coming off a breakout season in 2003-04, where he was an all-star and had games where he was the best player at BOTH ends of the court that season - and was only 23 years old.

Yes, in retrospect it was a huge, huge mistake, but at the time, it made alot of sense because AK was easily the face of the Jazz franchise, was still extremely young and had VERY FEW injury problems up to that point (missed a total of 6 games in his first 3 seasons). Where the franchise was in '03-04 after losing Stockton and Malone, there was no way the Jazz could risk losing AK to another team and have him become a superstar elsewhere. Each year AK had improved his perimeter shooting, ability to attack off the dribble and it looked like he still had alot of improvement left in him. He started the 04-05 season playing lights out and was the early favorite to be DPOY before a freak knee injury in San Antonio. I remember multiple analysts at espn praising the extension and touting the ability of Utah's new frontline (AK, Boozer, Okur) to become one of the best in the league. AK's development into a franchise player obviously never came to fruition, but saying it "never made sense" is simply Monday morning quarterbacking when you can't even remember what happened on Sunday.
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Great original post and follow-up. I also remember Larry H. saying at the time he awarded the contract that AK wasn't yet a MAX player, but he would be. I think we all expected an upward curve like we had seen with Stockton and Malone, and like many of the other great ones around the league. Great players sign big contracts and keep improving. As much as I hate Pau, he kept working on his game. Not to say he ever became perfect, but he improved year over year. IMO, AK had way more potential than Gasol. Kirilenko could have been LeBron - a do-it-all, unstoppable force. Just imagine had he added just ONE more facet to his game: like man-to-man defense, a consistent mid-range or 3-pt shot.
 
NO! I disagree with Hornacek,Griffeth and Layden hanging from the rafters as well.

I question whether Eaton should be their either but can understand that one. Kind of.

You should be the main star of a very good team that you are on for a fairly long period of time. Hornacek was none of those things. And Layden...Did he even have a winning record as coach? I understand he started turning around the franchise. But to me that is not enough.

Have not had time to read the thread yet so just figured I would throw my opinion out there.
 
gregbroncs said:
NO! I disagree with Hornacek or Layden hanging from the rafters as well.

I question whether Eaton should be their either but can understand that one. Kind of.

You should be the main star of a very good team that you are on for a fairly long period of time. Hornacek was none of those things. And Layden...Did he even have a winning record as coach? I understand he started turning around the franchise. But to me that is not enough.

Have not had time to read the thread yet so just figured I would throw my opinion out there.
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Layden had far more to do with the franchise than just the coach that got us into the playoffs. He was a close friend of coach and owner and undoubtedly had influence behind the scenes the scope of which we will never know.

Hornacek was the missing piece to 2 championship runs. He made it the big 3 in Utah, and was the difference maker in many games. And he finished out his career here, and is now an assistant coach.

I have no problem with either of their Jerseys being retired.
 
Log, seriously? Did you watch any of CSKA games to say utterly wrong things like that? AK is not "the Man" on that team, your attempt really looks pathetic and is so wrong it is not even funny. I am disappointed, I though better of you.
 
AKMVP said:
Log, seriously? Did you watch any of CSKA games to say utterly wrong things like that? AK is not "the Man" on that team, your attempt really looks pathetic and is so wrong it is not even funny. I am disappointed, I though better of you.
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Then who is?

If he isn't even the best guy on his team there what would make you think he is a top NBA player?

Your blind love of all things AK keeps you from seeing reality.

And again I wonder, are you a jazz fan or just an AK fan?
 
gregbroncs said:
And Layden...Did he even have a winning record as coach? I understand he started turning around the franchise. But to me that is not enough.
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Because of Frank Layden, the Jazz went from the laughing stock of the league (in New Orleans they were essentially the Clippers - perenial losers, poorly mismanaged, and worst-of-all a total money-loser) to one of the most successful franchises in the NBA. After he became GM of the Jazz, Layden specifically toured the facilities and studied the Dallas Cowboys of the 70's to learn the secrets to building a successful franchise - and he learned stability, consistency and character were the key ingrediants - and the Jazz have relied on those hallmarks for the past 30 years.

In the early 80's the Jazz couldn't even half-fill the Salt Palace. Layden sold the community on the team. He did and said anything and everything to draw publicity and create a buzz. He was more of a comedian than a trash-talker - but similar to Rex Ryan - he became the face of the franchise moreso than his players.
In Utah's first playoff series against Denver, Woody Paige wrote he didn't think Utah had the heart to comeback from a 2-1 deficit (best-of-5). Layden famously brought some type of chicken or cow's heart into the lockerroom before Game 4 and basically said "Here's your 'effin heart baby! Now go shove that thing up Denver's ***!" and the Jazz won the last 2 games.

The Jazz wouldn't still be in Utah without Frank Layden (and Larry Miller). They could retire two jersey numbers in his honor and it wouldn't be enough.
 
Only if it's made out of all the dollar bills we wasted on his soft ***.
It's going to be the biggest number up there.
 
Grandpa Jazz said:
I was in the U.S. Navy from 2000-2006. I didn't watch of follow basketball much during that time. I don't remember AK ever being great. From 2006 on he was the 4th or 5th option on the Jazz. He doesn't even qualify to be discussed as a possible retired jersey.

I, as a military vet also, resent people implying that their service gives them extra panache. If you were not able to watch, then maybe your opinion should not be so strong. That a ten year starter with an all-star season dosen't even qualify then i suggest we start ripping down most of the jerseys hanging there now.
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I agree that being in active service or vet shouldn't give anyway 'extra panache.' (As an aside, I also disagree with how our society so freely attaches the word 'hero' to anyone and everyone in uniform. We need to feel free to be able to criticize the military, both as an institution and the people in it.) Anyway, I digress. I don't think he was citing military service as a ploy to give him greater credibility but merely to point out that he didn't follow basketball closely as a result, but never during that time, heard much about AK, which one presumes he might have heard if AK was widely considered to be all that great.

Also, I'm not sure I understand your purpose. You first say that you just want to know everyone's opinion, then you go after anyone who expresses an opinion different form yours.

Personally, I don't feel AK deserves it. He was a perennial underachiever and role player on good to mediocre teams. That other under deserving former Jazz-men have their numbers retired is to me irrelevant. We shouldn't compound previous mistakes by making the exact some ones again for no better reason than we made the first mistakes to begin with.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Layden had far more to do with the franchise than just the coach that got us into the playoffs. He was a close friend of coach and owner and undoubtedly had influence behind the scenes the scope of which we will never know.

Hornacek was the missing piece to 2 championship runs. He made it the big 3 in Utah, and was the difference maker in many games. And he finished out his career here, and is now an assistant coach.

I have no problem with either of their Jerseys being retired.
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If you have no problem with them then your answer for AK should be yes. AK contributed more to this franchise than Hornacek or Griffeth did in their playing career. Hornacek was Steve Kerr for the Jazz. Is Kerr hanging in the rafters of the Bulls? It's not enough for me. The only Jersey's that I feel should be hanging are Stockton, Malone, AD, Maravich and Sloan.

I forgot about Layden's after coaching contributions. However if he is there should KOC be?
 
AKMVP said:
Log, seriously? Did you watch any of CSKA games to say utterly wrong things like that? AK is not "the Man" on that team, your attempt really looks pathetic and is so wrong it is not even funny. I am disappointed, I though better of you.
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AK is kicking *** in the CSKA? Color me impressed! That obviosly means he can kick *** in the NBA...against other teams third unit,
 
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