Should Gobert Get the Ball More?

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It seems like coming off the Olympics performance Gobert is trying to call for more post-ups, but it being ignored near 100% of the time. I get that Gobert isnt super reliable, but the Jazz players being so hesitant to pass to Gobert results in them missing a lot of opportunities where Gobert has good position to score or get fouled. I really thought there would be some sort of emphasis early on in the season to give Gobert some more experimental opportunities, especially when comfortably in the lead, but I guess not.

 

[Jingled]

He works so hard on defense and rebounding that he definitely deserves a few more touches on offense.

 

[infection]

He should when he’s all alone with Connaughton. I think the assumption is that something like that should convert at 95%, so when it converts at say 60%, those 40% times stand out (pulling number out of my *** here). But instead we roll with something that’s a 35% like Donovan going 3-on-1, but when those 35% fall it looks really impressive and overshadows those 65% times.

The simple answer is that we need a money ball approach here because I think pur views are being skewed by viewer/player expectation and psychology and not on-paper outcome.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It just feels ****ed up Gobert basically ****s something up once and no one wants to pass to him for a whole game, but Clarkson/Mitchell can miss 9 shots in a row and still the get ball for the 10th shot. Gobert can never get confidence/comfort because him actually getting the ball is never consistent.

 

[Jingled]

He should when he’s all alone with Connaughton. I think the assumption is that something like that should convert at 95%, so when it converts at say 60%, those 40% times stand out (pulling number out of my *** here). But instead we roll with something that’s a 35% like Donovan going 3-on-1, but when those 35% fall it looks really impressive and overshadows those 65% times.

The simple answer is that we need a money ball approach here because I think we’re being skewed by viewer/player expectation and psychology.

This sums it up perfectly.

 

[infection]

He should when he’s all alone with Connaughton. I think the assumption is that something like that should convert at 95%, so when it converts at say 60%, those 40% times stand out (pulling number out of my *** here). But instead we roll with something that’s a 35% like Donovan going 3-on-1, but when those 35% fall it looks really impressive and overshadows those 65% times.

The simple answer is that we need a money ball approach here because I think pur views are being skewed by viewer/player expectation and psychology and not on-paper outcome.

Tl;dr are we more accepting of a Donovan miss or turnover 50+% of the time or Gobert missing “gimmes” 35-40% of the time?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

He should when he’s all alone with Connaughton. I think the assumption is that something like that should convert at 95%, so when it converts at say 60%, those 40% times stand out (pulling number out of my *** here). But instead we roll with something that’s a 35% like Donovan going 3-on-1, but when those 35% fall it looks really impressive and overshadows those 65% times.

The simple answer is that we need a money ball approach here because I think pur views are being skewed by viewer/player expectation and psychology and not on-paper outcome.

The biggest thing that works against Gobert is that his fails can be embarrassingly bad, like they swing energy momentum bad.

 

[Jazzinho]

Well, a DM/JC shot missed feels more natural than a Rudy dropping an easy pass or one of those ugly travels.
But in the end of the day it's a math game, if Rudy is able to convert 65% of his mismatches post ups, even if he drops the other 35% in an embarrassing fashion, it's still better than the 40% we have been having with DM and JC. Additionally chances are we can have a key player in opposing team in foul trouble.

 

[Goodluckchuck]

Good question. But not sure how to answer it. Would be nice to get Gobert more touches down low, but we are winning so “don’t fix what’s not broken”? Would it make us better? Not so sure. Gobert isn’t a top free throw shooter, and he doesn’t have the best hands. But I would like to see them try it and see if inside out makes us even better.

 

[Jazzinho]

The biggest thing that works against Gobert is that his fails can be embarrassingly bad, like they swing energy momentum bad.

Well, if those embarrassing moments happen more often, the team will be used to it and no swing in momentum or whatsoever. Just business as usual.

 

[NUMBERICA]

It just feels ****ed up Gobert basically ****s something up once and no one wants to pass to him for a whole game, but Clarkson/Mitchell can miss 9 shots in a row and still the get ball for the 10th shot. Gobert can never get confidence/comfort because him actually getting the ball is never consistent.

Good observation. Should we be surprised when he doesn't look very confident a lot of the time?

 

[LogGrad98]

Tl;dr are we more accepting of a Donovan miss or turnover 50+% of the time or Gobert missing “gimmes” 35-40% of the time?

Actions speak louder than words so I would say the entire team, and Snyder as well, are more accepting of the Donovan scenario. 3 times tonight Gobert had a single smaller defender sealed, where a simple straight pass was completely available from three ball handler, most strikingly when Royce had it, and they didn't even look inside and instead settled for a far harder shot. There has to be some coaching at play otherwise I don't see how Royce doesn't make that pass. Donovan or Clarkson with the ball in their hand, ok we know they are going to shoot. So something has to change in game planning or nothing will change on the court. I think it'll take another Gobert outburst like last season to see him get more touches. Which by the way lead to us going on a serious tear. But frankly that's ridiculous that it would require that. For being such a cerebral "genius" coach, Snyder seems to miss the obvious plus play a lot.

I honestly feel like Snyder is viewing this as a long-term investor views the stock market, when he should be working more like a day trader. So focused on working the plan he fails to cash in on the one stock he has that's going nuts before it turns and drops again. Same with his coaches challenges.

 

[jom2003]

NBA is no FIBA. No 3 second violation, much crowded court and more big men friendly. The fact that Rudy had a good Olympics doesn't necessarily translate to the NBA.

 

[LogGrad98]

NBA is no FIBA. No 3 second violation, much crowded court and more big men friendly. The fact that Rudy had a good Olympics doesn't necessarily translate to the NBA.

No one expects that. But after seeing him handle the ball better at the rim during the Olympics, he should get more than a brush-off when he is standing under the basket with only Pat Connaghton within 10 feet of him. It seems like he is purposely ignored.

 

[KqWIN]

I agree with the sentiment that we don't pass Gobert the ball because when he fails, it's embarrassing. Even when Gobert converts it can look very sketchy. One of the reasons why Gobert gets so much **** about his offense is because he looks so awkward....but effectiveness is what matters. If Gobert can score 7/10 times and embarrass himself the other 3/10 times, that's still really good offense for us. The team should definitely look for him more.

I also think we underrate passing to the bigs as a skill. It may look easy to make a simple pass or lob to Gobert, but there are definitely players who are better at it than others. Gobert drops down a couple usage points when Mitchell is on the court. That's to be expected because Mitchell shoots a lot, but also because he's not as good as someone like Conley or Ingles at passing to the big. Mitchell is much more of a kick out to a shooter type passer, which he is incredible at to give him credit. I don't think it's selfishness, just a skill level thing. If Mitchell can get better at it it would be huge for both of them.

Even if we don't think Gobert "should" get more touches, we should try it anyways. I think it goes in the same bucket as trying new defenses and playing Butler. These are things that won't necessarily help us in the RS and may cost us some games, but we could cash in on that experience and improvement down the line. Personally I think the strategy of taking size advantages on switches is easier said than done, but it can't hurt to have Gobert and the ball handlers practice that situation as much as possible. I don't think we need to practice going 1:1 with a small against a big.

 

[infection]

I honestly feel like Snyder is viewing this as a long-term investor views the stock market, when he should be working more like a day trader. So focused on working the plan he fails to cash in on the one stock he has that's going nuts before it turns and drops again. Same with his coaches challenges.

This goes back to me feeling that Quin fundamentally misunderstands money ball. My oldest son has a project in one of his classes right now where they compete against everyone in the class with having a set amount they can invest in the market over 60 days. This activity is ridiculous because the outcome favors volatility and doesn’t really teach the lessons they’re probably hoping (the very opposite, actually). Quin’s response on Mann going off was almost like he was totally baffled because since that trend doesn’t carry across a season, it therefore shouldn’t happen in a single game. You have to know your situations and navigate between both short- and long-term strategies. Money ball is only helpful in the amalgam. It isn’t helpful for **** in any specific situation.

 

[Ujfanatic]

Yes. Rudy should have at least 10 FGA per game.

 

[infection]

Also, I’ve said that one under-recognized (or unrecognized) variable in the equation of why we can’t punish small ball is Quin.

 

[candrew]

Of course he should get the ball more in mis match situations like we saw tonight.

Jazz are never going to get next level unless they figure out how to make teams pay when they go small.

 

[KqWIN]

We were also elite at scoring against small ball against the Clippers even though we hardly passed it to Gobert….and that was without Conley. It required Mitchell to be Superman….but that’s kinda who he is in the playoffs.

We didn’t utilize Gobert enough, but what we were doing was working really well. The amount of bigs who actually take advantage of smaller matchups on the regular are mostly the same guys who punish Gobert in the post.