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Should Gobert Get the Ball More?

Said it in another post, but if we gave 25-30% of the jumpshots we take, and replace it with feeding Gobert/Whiteside in the post we'd probably maintain leverage of our leads, and be undefeated. Whiteside is a proven low post threat/mid range shooter, but it seems like we want to relegate him to only score off putbacks. I think Hassans drop step into a dunk in Houston is a prime example that he can do damage in the paint. Our bigs shouldn't only be getting 5 shot attempts a night, when our shooters are throwing up 10-20 shots.
 
- I do think we need to give Gobert a few more touches per game to keep him happy and engaged
- I also realize that NBA players are so capable of helping/disrupting him, that I'm not sure the numbers are actually in his favor.
- Gobert's passing seems a little improved this year, so maybe by feeding him in the post a couple of times per game, would give some players some easy looks once defenders come to help.

I'm guessing it would be easy for someone with access to look up pts per Gobert postup vs pts per Donovan Iso? My guess is that the numbers are somewhat close.
 
I know defense was what lost the Clippers series, but the inability to exploit the mismatch has to be a close second. If Gobert is Dunking all over on offense we score 130 a game and have successfully countered the small ball. It seems to be the definition of insanity that we have doubled down on the big dominant defense by signing Whiteside while we ignore the development of exploiting the mismatch of smallball.

Now is the time to get the bugs out of this.
 
Floating around on the twitterzz

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These are the types of passes that we’re missing and can improve on. There’s a lot of these opportunities against switched where Rudy has someone sealed but three isn’t even an attempt or look at.

Don’t think we need to “feed” him in the post. You can count the number of big guys are truly effective in the post with one hand. Just need to get Rudy a couple more easy baskets a night because they are available.
 
It feels like they used to find him near or rolling to the basket a lot more than they do now. I don't know why they stopped.
There should be more attention paid to see if he has a mismatch, and toss him a couple extra shots per game to keep him motivated.

However, as hard as he has probably worked on his inside game, we should at no point expect him to ever be able to create much of
his own offense. It's still worth it to give him a couple more attempts per game, but keep expectations low.
 
That's the one. What the everloving **** kept him from making that pass. Pass, dunk, good possibility of 3-pt play. Imo it is coaching. He was instructed to not make that pass. Ridiculous.
It's crazy, too, because you don't even have to worry about the pass being picked off, just throw it close to the rim like it's a shot. Or even throw head fake and look at Conley while throwing it.
 
It depends on the matchup. Rudy trying to create offense in the post usually results in a turnover.

I don't get why Gobert can't just get low, put down a pound dribble and go try to dunk the ball. Make the defense make a tough play. He needs to be aggressive instead of finessing all the time.
 
It depends on the matchup. Rudy trying to create offense in the post usually results in a turnover.

I don't get why Gobert can't just get low, put down a pound dribble and go try to dunk the ball. Make the defense make a tough play. He needs to be aggressive instead of finessing all the time.
This mirrors my thoughts on situation. Too often he either brings the ball down and gets stripped or he tries to go around a defender and kind of just tries to toss the ball up instead of going up strong. That has to be in the back of everyone else's mind when deciding not to pass it down low to him.
 
It depends on the matchup. Rudy trying to create offense in the post usually results in a turnover.

I don't get why Gobert can't just get low, put down a pound dribble and go try to dunk the ball. Make the defense make a tough play. He needs to be aggressive instead of finessing all the time.
He doesn't know how to protect the ball. He need to raise his elbows and use it as a shield. once a defender sees your elbows he won't even try to reach the ball
 
To be honest, yeah, there's some times he's open (or has a huge mismatch even he can exploit) and that isn't exploited, but i'd say nearly all of the times, it's not up to the point of deserving a change of approach.

And a lot of the times it revolves either a much shorter window of time space of time and/or shorter/tigther passing angles (due to how high the ball has to be passed to Rudy actually get hold of it, and how susceptible to defenders poking it away from him he actually is) him being actually open than one that our not best at playmaking are able to regurlaly attack, which leads to some expectations of plays coming out of situations that should be easier for other type of big man and/or some of the guards/wings that we do have to exploit that ain't actually what they're at their best doing it

With that pointed out there's two things i'd say. First, that i see him trying his post-ups in more situations that he's used before (tho no numbers to back up the eye test and show many plays per game he goes for it, more of a view of a bigger array of situations that he tries something), which i say also means indicates it's more of a "we have better plays to run for than look for Gobert post ups" than "Rudy isn't allowed to post, period" - tho i don't think that Quin would have much more options than scream at him, or call a timeout to do so for longer, if Rudy wanted to defy what was his orders, there wouldn't be much of what could Quin do, as he's clearly better even than a so far pretty serviceable level backup of Whiteside to simply bench him, and still in the past being visible he having some opportunity to give it a go for a three, looking at Quin just to receive a "don't even dare" look and walk away from it, so i guess he knows very well what he can and what he can't do on court and follows it

The other thing i would say is that what we need to keep Rudy engaged is more of the other guys playing in a way that makes sense on offense and work hard on defense, so that the team is playing winning basketball and his efforts aren't for nothing, rather than mere two or three extra touches down the basket. I remember the first season Conley played for us, and he really struggled to set in the scheme prior to the bubble (even if his shooting get better before the season halted), and Mitchell also only estabilized as a reliable offense initiator/decision maker in the bubble, so that even when we had better shooting splits as a team than we are doing right now, we were operating a bang average offense (as of rating, which right now our offensive rating is actually good even with some good part of our guys shooting like crap) that a lot of the times wouldn't run proper sets, after moving all in from defense/physical role players for spacing/creators/scorers pieces (which made our defense rely even more on Rudy) and playing bad defense, a lot cause of piss poor effort, and then there were rumours of Rudy being unhappy with his touches. Well, my understanding of the situation then was that he wasn't unhappy just with touches, but with overall bad displays on both ends, night in, night out, and we've avoiding it, at least out of some 4 games against the Clippers
 
I've said this his entire career as it always bugged me that he works his a* off and gets ignored but then they actually do give it to him and he screws it up nearly every time. It's why I've always said he needs a post up move.
 
I have been thinking about this a lot. It bums me a little when other guys are clanking shots and Rudy has two shots. I definitely think the Jazz should run plays for him when the other team goes small ball. Make them pay for going small. Other frustrating thing is I believe Rudy should be more then a dunker. He has the ability to make outside shots. Some people freak out and say his percentages will go down. So what if they go down a little, the benefit of him being able to make 15 ft shot would force the opposing center to come out to defend him. They cannot pack it in and this also opens the lane for other guys. I am not saying he should just sit out and take jump shots but if he tried a couple of times in a game I think the benefits out way the negative.
 
Rudy's individual offensive arsenal and hands have been stalled for some years now.
His ability to protect the basketball too. Same with his (non existent) shots.
His point of gravity isn't lower, and the inches between his elbow and wrist are not fading in any way.
However, defenders ability to disrupt him it's constantly growing.
Are there situations where his mates should throw him the rock? Yes, there are a couple each game.
I feel his mates are protecting him by not doing it.




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It depends on the matchup. Rudy trying to create offense in the post usually results in a turnover.

I don't get why Gobert can't just get low, put down a pound dribble and go try to dunk the ball. Make the defense make a tough play. He needs to be aggressive instead of finessing all the time.

In the example shown in the picture he wouldnt have to try to create offense. Throw the ball to him. Done. No creating necessary.


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It depends on the matchup. Rudy trying to create offense in the post usually results in a turnover.

I don't get why Gobert can't just get low, put down a pound dribble and go try to dunk the ball. Make the defense make a tough play. He needs to be aggressive instead of finessing all the time.
The big thing with Gobert that people dont notice is that he has no vertical burst from a stand-still and that's even without bodies on him. I actually think Rudy needs to be more finesse in a lot of ways. He tries too much to force contact then fumbles the ball and ends up putting up a shot without touch. I think he just needs to turn over his shoulder for a soft-baby style hook (focus on palming the **** out of the ball and getting it as high as possible). The counter would be a step-through when guys try to block it (and guys LOVE to try and block Rudy's shots, I think a post hook pump could be very effective).

But overall I think he should basically never post-up unless it's very deep (basically under basket). I'd rather seem him focus on taking jumpers and being more comfortable with those. I think that's where he actually has some form of potential to expand the offensive game because his FT shoot looks a lot more natural this year.
 
IDK... what makes him a great offensive player is his bonkers efficiency and that he doesn't require the lower efficiency attempts.

What I think we don't understand here is what it costs us to throw him the ball a couple times when he has an extreme mismatch pinned. If he sets those up all the time it kills every driving lane... basically if a player is set up there you either take a pullup or throw them the ball. Its why I hate playing pickup with guys that want to post up. Your going to draw a couple three second calls and some of the little guys, like CP3, will flop as the assault Gobert and then they will draw the offensive foul. I don't think this is a huge discussion if our guys are actually making some shots. I've felt for a while you punish small ball and switching by hitting the offensive glass.

Rudy is skilled and coordinated for his size... but at his size you have to be amazingly coordinated and skilled to do some of the things we ask. I don't even think some of it can be developed. If we want to throw him a few extra high passes even when they are a little dicey I'd support that. Maybe hit him a couple times when he pins his guy deep, but be selective and limit the amount of times he tries it because it effs up the driving lanes. There just isn't much juice to squeeze there imo.
 
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