Should Mitt release his tax returns?

[Dr. Jones]

What we have here is someone that thinks they know it all and anyone that thinks differently than they do must be naive an out of touch. Yes the charitable giving part would be nice and is not likely to happen in today's world. As to your naive comment, that is a bunch of crap. I am spot on with it, and you are foolish and blind to think otherwise, but it was a nice effort on your part to try to discredit that part of my post.

It is not about bloated and unnecessary national (not state) programs in the past only. There have been in the past, and there are now. The state does not have as much of an obligation as you seem to imply. It should not be a government burden to support members of society that cannot support themselves. It should not come from tax dollars. There are less programs that the government must take care of than are currently being handled. The bottom line is, if you do not have the money, you do not spend the money... no matter the situation. To do so is what leads us to our current debt situation, and an undue burden being placed on the citizens.

I expect the lame undercutting comments from you NAOS, I get it... we disagree and you want to look smart. Go ahead, but I will continue to call you out on your stupid comments where you try to look smart at the expense of someone else.

If I find myself out of touch with you, I think I'm fine with that and should find myself in good company.

Great post, spazz!

 

[northeast]

I wasn't necessarily refering to profit margins in my example, but the fact that this guy needed to use a lot of resources (which he had to purchase himself) and time to calculate and pay the amount of tax owed. It should be noted that this was years and years ago, and I'm sure technology has made it easier to do this. But talking to this guy you would think his main job was a tax collecter, which he basically had to do for free, and his second job was running a gas station.

I agree that it would be great to simplify or eliminate the burden of record keeping for small business start-ups.
It might have been possible to shift this burden more to the production and distribution network to ease the burden for the retailer. I haven't given much thought to the ramifications of this. On the other hand, record keeping is part of doing business as a retailer. If this guy is not going to keep sales records, there would be no way to have him pay any taxes of any kind.

It sounds like you want to do away with all taxes.
You don't want the rich to pay taxes, and you don't want the small business owner to pay taxes.
At some point you've got to figure out a way for some people to pay some taxes, or we might as well all prepare for a return to the stone ages, or some futuristic doomsday scifi scenario. We could all move to Somalia I suppose.

 

[margodydek]

I agree that it would be great to simplify or eliminate the burden of record keeping for small business start-ups.
It might have been possible to shift this burden more to the production and distribution network to ease the burden for the retailer. I haven't given much thought to the ramifications of this. On the other hand, record keeping is part of doing business as a retailer. If this guy is not going to keep sales records, there would be no way to have him pay any taxes of any kind.

It sounds like you want to do away with all taxes.
You don't want the rich to pay taxes, and you don't want the small business owner to pay taxes.
At some point you've got to figure out a way for some people to pay some taxes, or we might as well all prepare for a return to the stone ages, or some futuristic doomsday scifi scenario. We could all move to Somalia I suppose.

Wow there buddy. Not sure where you got that. Just because someone sees some flaws in the system, just as you've noted flaws in the way the riches are taxed, doesn't mean I'm in favor of abolishing taxes. I don't mind having these respectful disagreements on here, but I don't like when people start assuming things and interpreting what I say to sound like some hyperbolic bull****.

 

[Stoked]

Wow there buddy. Not sure where you got that. Just because someone sees some flaws in the system, just as you've noted flaws in the way the riches are taxed, doesn't mean I'm in favor of abolishing taxes. I don't mind having these respectful disagreements on here, but I don't like when people start assuming things and interpreting what I say to sound like some hyperbolic bull****.

Replying to Northeast with any semblance of logic or seriousness is your first mistake.

If you make more than him, or he deems you more successful in any way (wife, house, car, job...), than you are a cheating, no good, rotten, scandelous, tax frauding enemy.

 

[northeast]

Margo, Did you read the next sentence in my post?
You are arguing for minimizing taxes as much as possible or outright eliminating taxes for both the super wealthy and also the small business startup. I don't see anyplace where you are drawing a line and having any funding for government anywhere.

So you agree that there should be some funding for government, okay. I am just curious as to what taxes you want to keep or expand, since you want to cut or minimize them for both small business and the rich.

 

[Stoked]

Margo, Did you read the next sentence in my post?
You are arguing for minimizing taxes as much as possible or outright eliminating taxes for both the super wealthy and also the small business startup. I don't see anyplace where you are drawing a line and having any funding for government anywhere.

So you agree that there should be some funding for government, okay. I am just curious as to what taxes you want to keep, since you want to cut or minimize them for both startups and the rich.

So you agree with me that there should be some taxes and some government, okay.

Despite your pointless, and completely wrong, assertations to the contrary almost everyone here agrees with that general concept.

 

[margodydek]

Margo, Did you read the next sentence in my post?
You are arguing for minimizing taxes as much as possible or outright eliminating taxes for both the super wealthy and also the small business startup. I don't see anyplace where you are drawing a line and having any funding for government anywhere.

So you agree that there should be some funding for government, okay. I am just curious as to what taxes you want to keep or expand, since you want to cut or minimize them for both small business and the rich.

Where in the world did you get this from? You seem like you're reading what you want to read so you'll have someone to argue with.

 

[northeast]

It is all you have written about in this thread.

 

[northeast]

I wasn't necessarily refering to profit margins in my example, but the fact that this guy needed to use a lot of resources (which he had to purchase himself) and time to calculate and pay the amount of tax owed. It should be noted that this was years and years ago, and I'm sure technology has made it easier to do this. But talking to this guy you would think his main job was a tax collecter, which he basically had to do for free, and his second job was running a gas station.

here you are arguing for eliminating the tax burden for the small business

 

[northeast]

I truly am a novice when it comes to the tax code and how the rich are taxed, but as far as the capital gains tax goes, I'm perfectly fine with it being quite a bit lower than the ordinary income rates.

Here you are arguing for the rich paying lower rates then others

 

[northeast]

I agree. Reading through this thread I feel way out of my league. My opinions are as long as there are egregious loopholes in the code that the rich are really exploiting, then I'm fine with them getting certain cuts as they're basically floating the country in the first place. I'm sure there are certain tweaks that need to be fixed to make things more "fair", but I'm of the opinion that our country needs to start addressing the behaviors of its citizens if it truly wants to make things "better". Enough of these programs.

Here you are arguing in favor of the rich having lots of loopholes to avoid paying taxes.

 

[margodydek]

here you are arguing for eliminating the tax burden for the small business

Really, read it again. I was making a simple comment on how the man was being used by the government as a tax collector. Just because he runs a business that automatically qualifies him a free employee of the gov't to collet their taxes. Obviously I think he should be paying taxes on his own personal profit.

 

[northeast]

As I mentioned, I would be in favor of reducing paperwork for small business startups where possible, but you can't just say let's reduce the taxes on everybody, without giving some thought about what that really means.

 

[margodydek]

I agree. Reading through this thread I feel way out of my league. My opinions are as long as there are egregious loopholes in the code that the rich are really exploiting, then I'm fine with them getting certain cuts as they're basically floating the country in the first place. I'm sure there are certain tweaks that need to be fixed to make things more "fair", but I'm of the opinion that our country needs to start addressing the behaviors of its citizens if it truly wants to make things "better". Enough of these programs.

Here you are arguing in favor of the rich having lots of loopholes to avoid paying taxes.

This was my bad as it was obviously supposed to read "as long as there AREN'T egregious loopholes"

 

[northeast]

I think that there are egregious loopholes for the rich.

 

[margodydek]

As I mentioned, I would be in favor of reducing paperwork for small business startups where possible, but you can't just say let's reduce the taxes on everybody, without giving some thought about what that really means.

OK, where they heck are you getting that I'm saying we should reduce the taxes on everybody?

 

[Dr. Jones]

northeast reaches, to say the least.

 

[northeast]

I was extrapolating your arguments and making some assumptions.
IF you want low taxes for both the little guy and the big guy, I am just guessing that you are not advocating socking it to the guys in the middle to make up for the cuts at the extremes.

 

[northeast]

Really, read it again. I was making a simple comment on how the man was being used by the government as a tax collector. Just because he runs a business that automatically qualifies him a free employee of the gov't to collet their taxes. Obviously I think he should be paying taxes on his own personal profit.

and I was just pointing out that eliminating his record keeping burden is easier said than done

 

[margodydek]

I was extrapolating your arguments and making some assumptions.
IF you want low taxes for both the little guy and the big guy, I am just guessing that you are not advocating socking it to the guys in the middle to make up for the cuts at the extremes.

The little guy doesn't pay any taxes (and in a lot of cases he's a deficit to the IRS), so I'm going to extrapolate a little bit and assume that you just meant that the middle guy is getting screwed by making up for the little guy's lack of contribution.