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Should The Jazz Trades for Harry B?

I think we hold onto Bojan and it all depends on his playoff performance if he stays.

I've been predicting all year that he shines when it matters. I think he will figure it out like the vet he is, and bring it the playoffs.
Is he under performs like he has all year then I think they try and trade him during the offseason.

They will consider a trade for Barnes but in the end decide to stick with Bogie for the rest of the year.
 
Bogie for Barnes makes sense for us. Not sure it makes the best sense for Sacramento. Bogie and a first, probably does for them.

Having said that, I seem to recall several people being belittled by CY for suggesting Bogie trades. Still, CY, thanks for bringing the tone down a bit as of late. It makes this space more comfortable for all.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Bogie for Barnes makes sense for us. Not sure it makes the best sense for Sacramento. Bogie and a first, probably does for them.

Having said that, I seem to recall several people being belittled by CY for suggesting Bogie trades. Still, CY, thanks for bringing the tone down a bit as of late. It makes this space more comfortable for all.
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That never happened. Stop being a snowflake.

I was the OG "Trade Bogey" guy during the off-season.

And if you actually read the post, it never says Bogey for Barnes. It says a trade involving Bogey, Barnes, and a 3rd team.
 
Real talk, what do you think it’d take to get him? Bogey and a second? I feel like bogey is worth 2 firsts so if Sac turned right around and traded him they could essentially get 2 first and a second for HB which seems like great value. I think in the off-season, unless we get close enough to a title run the owners say f it let’s lay for it, then I think we’d have to either look at letting mike go via sign and trade or ingles. Everyone else is just too valuable and if HB hits then his combined shooting, size, and defense is needed more imo than another year older of joe ingles leading the bench (even though Joe has been rock solid and I want him to retire here).

from what I’m seeing I think we could bring in HB, resign Conley in the neighborhood of $60/4yrs, then let go of ingles and still be under the tax without giving anyone else up.
 
MCarter said:
Real talk, what do you think it’d take to get him? Bogey and a second? I feel like bogey is worth 2 firsts so if Sac turned right around and traded him they could essentially get 2 first and a second for HB which seems like great value. I think in the off-season, unless we get close enough to a title run the owners say f it let’s lay for it, then I think we’d have to either look at letting mike go via sign and trade or ingles. Everyone else is just too valuable and if HB hits then his combined shooting, size, and defense is needed more imo than another year older of joe ingles leading the bench (even though Joe has been rock solid and I want him to retire here).
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I think it would cost Bogey and a first... I think its pretty clear from the rumors that Boston would prefer Barnes as he is the guy they have had their eye on. So Sacramento might get a first and a prospect from Boston for him... we would have to add something to that pot to get the better perceived player. Can't just be a second or a middling prospect.
 
MCarter said:
Real talk, what do you think it’d take to get him? Bogey and a second? I feel like bogey is worth 2 firsts so if Sac turned right around and traded him they could essentially get 2 first and a second for HB which seems like great value. I think in the off-season, unless we get close enough to a title run the owners say f it let’s lay for it, then I think we’d have to either look at letting mike go via sign and trade or ingles. Everyone else is just too valuable and if HB hits then his combined shooting, size, and defense is needed more imo than another year older of joe ingles leading the bench (even though Joe has been rock solid and I want him to retire here).
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2 first are typically reserved for All-Stars. I think it would take a 1st and a number of young promising rotation type players.

Like I said though, this would never be a 2-team deal. You got to find a 3rd team who wants Bogey.
 
How much of an upgrade on D and a downgrade on O would Barnes be over Bogey anyway? I haven't watched literally any Sac basketball this year, little to none in previous years, so I have no eye test to go on. His defensive rating this year it much worse than Bogey, where Bogey is around 112 and Barnes is at 120. Even if the stats don't look good, is he still the kind of player you can put on a Kawhi or LeBron for extended minutes and who could at least be an irritant to them, if not outright stick with them? I just don't know if that makes any sense at this point at all. If he is at least equal on offense, or say a drop off of 10% or so, and yet an increase in defense of say 20-30% then it would be a no-brainer. Heck maybe it is anyway, I just haven't seen much of the guy.
 
As I have thought through this one... I think I'm good with Bojan. I'd rather add in a wing defender and if you need to sit Bojan at the end of games for the defender or just put Joe in then so be it.
 
All these threads will become irrelevant when we sign OPJ with one of our exceptions. But we need to make more offerings.
 
infection said:
All these threads will become irrelevant when we sign OPJ with one of our exceptions. But we need to make more offerings.
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When he is waived I expect an epic meme thread... no matter where he signs I expect another epic meme thread when he lands somewhere.
 
I am grateful for the ignore button. Didn't know it existed until a few days ago. Thanks, but I'll pass on all things Saint Cy in the future. It seemed like he was turning a corner after the whole "having fun with your wife while she's wearing a cross" thing. But clearly not. It's been real nice hearing about how much you demand respect from others without ever giving any yourself... Good luck with your 'quest'.

Anywho... the board won't censor you, but I can. Peace out negative nancy... Click Ignore Now...



 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
I am grateful for the ignore button. Didn't know it existed until a few days ago. Thanks, but I'll pass on all things Saint Cy in the future. It seemed like he was turning a corner after the whole "having fun with your wife while she's wearing a cross" thing. But clearly not. It's been real nice hearing about how much you demand respect from others without ever giving any yourself... Good luck with your 'quest'.

Anywho... the board won't censor you, but I can. Peace out negative nancy... Click Ignore Now...



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snowflake lmao. Best part is youre a republican little wussy who cant take the heat.

Crazy how people can just bring **** up without receipts. Don't put stuff in quotes if you dont even know the quote.
 
LogGrad98 said:
How much of an upgrade on D and a downgrade on O would Barnes be over Bogey anyway? I haven't watched literally any Sac basketball this year, little to none in previous years, so I have no eye test to go on. His defensive rating this year it much worse than Bogey, where Bogey is around 112 and Barnes is at 120. Even if the stats don't look good, is he still the kind of player you can put on a Kawhi or LeBron for extended minutes and who could at least be an irritant to them, if not outright stick with them? I just don't know if that makes any sense at this point at all. If he is at least equal on offense, or say a drop off of 10% or so, and yet an increase in defense of say 20-30% then it would be a no-brainer. Heck maybe it is anyway, I just haven't seen much of the guy.
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From my understanding his interior d is good and his perimeter d is decent/normal. He is obviously more athletic than bogey and rebounds better so that is good. Someone said HB has got himself a really high true shooting percentage this year that frankly might not be sustainable. He does have great playoff experience. Since he did play for that warriors team I think he’d adjust to our playing style very nicely. I looked at the game logs for him and bogey and it seems that bogey has more hot games but also more cold games where HB is more consistent to give you 15-20pts per night. Frankly I’d love someone else’s insight as well.
 
Revolution 9 said:
I think we hold onto Bojan and it all depends on his playoff performance if he stays.

I've been predicting all year that he shines when it matters. I think he will figure it out like the vet he is, and bring it the playoffs.
Is he under performs like he has all year then I think they try and trade him during the offseason.

They will consider a trade for Barnes but in the end decide to stick with Bogie for the rest of the year.
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If he continues to underperform, the Jazz lose their best shot at winning it all. I'm not saying Barnes is a clear-cut home-run, but I'm not putting a chip this year on the line just to get a better idea of the financial picture next year.
 
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LogGrad98 said:
How much of an upgrade on D and a downgrade on O would Barnes be over Bogey anyway? I haven't watched literally any Sac basketball this year, little to none in previous years, so I have no eye test to go on. His defensive rating this year it much worse than Bogey, where Bogey is around 112 and Barnes is at 120. Even if the stats don't look good, is he still the kind of player you can put on a Kawhi or LeBron for extended minutes and who could at least be an irritant to them, if not outright stick with them? I just don't know if that makes any sense at this point at all. If he is at least equal on offense, or say a drop off of 10% or so, and yet an increase in defense of say 20-30% then it would be a no-brainer. Heck maybe it is anyway, I just haven't seen much of the guy.
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It's hard for me to ignore the age difference, baseline athleticism difference, and that Bogey primarily plays with one of the greatest defensive players of all time behind him (and that Barnes doesn't).

For me it comes down to if both players had to dig in on defense, I have few doubts who would be able to hold up more than the other.
 
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Handlogten's Heros said:
As I have thought through this one... I think I'm good with Bojan. I'd rather add in a wing defender and if you need to sit Bojan at the end of games for the defender or just put Joe in then so be it.
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Problem is that for all of Joe's savvy, he simply can't keep up with quicker or more explosive players. And can Joe get you a bucket in a busted set as well? Also, given that you can only play 5 players at a time, specialists (like a "defender" you "add") might improve an outcome on one play, but could swing the other way (even farther) on others.

As much fun as the hydra is (speaking specifically to the depth of the scoring), creating a more-solvent, clearly preferable 5-man unit remains elusive. Get that, then garnish with specialists, rather than relying on them. I think Barnes would move us closer to that.

I think Barnes - at least hypothetically - is a more complete player that could maintain his production for more years. I don't know that I'm talking about, though, and Barnes has always promised more than he's delivered.
 
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NUMBERICA said:
Problem is that for all of Joe's savvy, he simply can't keep up with quicker or more explosive players. And can Joe get you a bucket in a busted set as well? Also, given that you can only play 5 players at a time, specialists (like a "defender" you "add") don't might contextually change certain plays, but could swing the other way on others.

As much fun as the hydra is, creating a more-solvent, clearly preferable 5-man unit remains elusive. Get that, then garnish with specialists, rather than relying on them.

I think Barnes - at least hypothetically - is a more complete player that could maintain his production for more years. I don't know that I'm talking about, though, and Barnes has always promised more than he's delivered.
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The issue we have had is stopping teams with two good wings end of game. The Clips are the main team that worries me there and Joe could cover PG. Not sure how much better Joe would have faired on Tobias.

The specialist would need to be able to defend without completely screwing up our spacing. End of games still tends to go away from the Hydra and into iso-scoring and iso-creation. Even the Warriors struggled with this in the playoffs at times prior to getting KD. So I don't think we will be different but I think DM and Mike are able to create well enough that we can still make it work and close well... so the idea is having another competent defender that can hit a catch and shoot three at a good enough rate (say 35%) might be more desirable at end of game than a guy that makes them at 40-45% but is a defensive liability.

Joe likely works just fine in these scenarios and I like having him on the floor as he can run some actions and is a far superior passer to Bojan. We may hold off on making this change until the playoffs to keep Joe's minutes down. Maybe Oni is good enough.

I also worry that Royce gets in foul trouble and then we rely on who? Its why I kinda want us to add a Sterling Brown or Ideally a Tate (pipe dream). Mix those guys in and it might make us more flexible.

Barnes is a little better rebounder... he's likely a little better defender but I'm not convinced it is by much... he's a worse shooter but having a good year. If he could be had basically straight up I'd strongly consider it but don't think he changes us much... itd be more about age and I think he's a slightly better asset. I really think we'd have to add some stuff to get that one done and I'd rather trade that "stuff" for a piece and keep Bojan.

Next year we have a pivot point... it will be either keeping Mike or keeping Bojan. Mike might make that decision for us. Swapping Bojan for Barnes doesn't really change that. If we got something cheap that looks good as a garnishment it might make moving Bojan next year less painful... as well as adding some versatility this year.

Its a tough ask given our assets so I understand if we don't get it done.
 
If we won a title with Harrison Barnes, expect to see some PGAB posts demanding vindication.
 
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