Should we trade Millsap for a great Point Guard?
- Thread starter Matthew Thomas Castleton
- Start date
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
NotDeadYet
Well-Known Member
Trying to decide who is more valuable to the Jazz right now, Millsap or Jefferson, may be a moot point as far as trades go. It's more a question of which will our trade partner want? They BOTH have had their ups and downs with us; neither is 'perfect'. Pair them with different partners who are already all-star caliber, either Millsap or Jefferson could become more consistant. As far into this season as we've gone, trading either of them now would probably tank our season, as Favors does not seem quite ready to be a starter.
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
GVC
Well-Known Member
Is there anything wrong with the stats or methodology? People choose to focus in on a very small set of games, instead of looking at the whole picture. The data is there.
Last season, Millsap's game against Miami (along with a couple more big games early) were hard to forget about. When he couldn't replicate his Miami performance, people assumed that that somehow represented a season-long trend. Obviously, judging by the monthly splits anyway, this was not the case.
The same thing has happened this season. After a middling first 8 games, Millsap had 9 games where he put up big numbers. Over the last 8, his shot has crashed down to earth (I would expect this to correct upward), and his numbers look a lot like his first 8 games. Unfortunately, again, Jazz fans have completely forgotten about the first 8 games.
It's hard to spot an obvious trend. What I feel comfortable saying is that there's a high variance in Millsap's offensive production. He'll have stretches of great games and stretches of mediocre ones. He's not a 1st option, obviously, and probably not a very dependable 2nd option either. He is, however, and extremely useful player who does loads to help his teams win. It's hard to argue with his production v. his opposite number and his adjusted (for teammates and opponents) +/- over the last 1 and 2 years (top 5 in the NBA).
I don't think the huge increase in TOs is by chance. Teams are playing him differently, and he is forcing the issue and taking some bad, forced shots. There are a lot of probable reasons why this is happening, and it may not be strictly Paul's fault, but he has looked pretty bad as of late. Hopefully you're right, and he will have another amazing nine games, but the decrease in steals and large increase in TOs is a bit disturbing, though.
Grandpa Jazz
Active Member
Believe this is exactly wrong, no offense, "square in the circle". We need that PG to grow with the kids. Not have him come in later when the young guys spirit's are busted and they are not used to playing with a real PG. Then we have to go through
another period of adjustment. Start with the PG and build around him i would think is the way to go.
Grandpa Jazz
Active Member
GVC............No team can afford a marquee player who is up then down and then back up and then back down. The fine players in the league bring it on a nightly basis. Sure they may have a few down games here and there but by and large are much more consistent than Paul has been. I love his heart and his effort.......but.
This is just a small token of the entire season. Did he have good games in the 2nd half last year, of course. I'm not saying he was amazing/perfect to start the season,
and completely failed the end. It just felt like he had a lot more good games in the 1st half of the season last year. He didn't seem like the same player to me at the end, but still had some good games.
Did Sap look like the same player all last you to you all season long?
Right now does Sap look ok to you?
GVC
Well-Known Member
Uh...Millsap isn't a marquee offensive player. Mind you, neither is anyone else on the Jazz. Difference is, Millsap contributes more than anyone else on the team toward wins, and is underpaid for what he gives. Every team can afford players like Milsap.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Again, look at the stats. Sometimes the eyeball test is wrong, and I think most people forget what Paul was doing in November and December when he wasn't dropping 46 on the Heat. His numbers were better in February/March than they were in December/January last season.
The point you've seemed to miss is that Millsap is not a guy who can give you 20 points every night. He'll have stretches of games where he's unbelievable, and then have stretches where he's not. During the latter stretches, however, he's often still doing a lot of good things to help his team win (team O and D, the oft forgotten transition game, rebounding, defending, etc.). There was no trend last season. There is no trend so far this season.
When Paul puts up gaudy numbers, the average Jazz fan then expects it from him every night, loses focus on the other aspects of his game and his salary, and gets disappointed. Who does more for the Jazz than Millsap?
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
I understand that Paul is going to miss shots, I understand that that streak of great games wasn't where he will always play at, but what is pissing me off about Millsap is the lack of consistent effort he's showing right now. I can't even count the amount of times I've seen him lollygag his was back on defense the last couple games and it's driving me nuts.
squareinthecircle
Well-Known Member
Respectfully I see nothing written in stone that a PG has to be the first piece taken, and I bet if you ask prospective PGs they would want a team ready to go like Magic Johnson got than a team on the build like Jordan got. Plus we already have a good amount of a young core for the future already. If and when we get the right fit that PG won't need the extra growing time, and that is exactly what would make it the right fit.
MattMan
Active Member
I know people are sick of Rondo trades being thrown around, but it's a good possibility with how bad Boston is in the paint.
Ainge is willing to shop Rondo if it means they get an inside presence. I actually agree that Jefferson might be more attractive to Boston than Millsap.
At this point, I've been really impressed with Jefferson. Most of my complaints from last year have faded. He isn't the black hole like he used to be, he's passing the ball fairly well, and I like some of the post moves he's been using more. He still needs work on knowing how to get to the line more often.
Millsap is my favorite player on this team, but, you can shut Millsap down with a bit of game planning. Even if Paul's shot is on one night, all it takes is a bit of pressure from a defensive minded big and occasional help D, and you'll shut him down.
If Jefferson's push shot is on, then he's going to get his no matter what the game plan is of the opposing team.
As far as defense goes, I'm sorry but Millsap is not that much better than Jefferson. When I talk to other fans, I'm surprised how much people say they love how Paul plays D. I feel like he's been at his worst this year. Yes he gets steals and some blocks, but his post-D is just so soft. He gives way too much inside for my liking.
Personally, I'd like to see Paul stay instead of Al, because he's just a good, hard-working guy. However, with a good, pass-first minded PG (yes, Rondo would be great), I think Al, Favors and Kanter as our three bigs, sets us up REALLY well for the future.
Ainge is willing to shop Rondo if it means they get an inside presence. I actually agree that Jefferson might be more attractive to Boston than Millsap.
At this point, I've been really impressed with Jefferson. Most of my complaints from last year have faded. He isn't the black hole like he used to be, he's passing the ball fairly well, and I like some of the post moves he's been using more. He still needs work on knowing how to get to the line more often.
Millsap is my favorite player on this team, but, you can shut Millsap down with a bit of game planning. Even if Paul's shot is on one night, all it takes is a bit of pressure from a defensive minded big and occasional help D, and you'll shut him down.
If Jefferson's push shot is on, then he's going to get his no matter what the game plan is of the opposing team.
As far as defense goes, I'm sorry but Millsap is not that much better than Jefferson. When I talk to other fans, I'm surprised how much people say they love how Paul plays D. I feel like he's been at his worst this year. Yes he gets steals and some blocks, but his post-D is just so soft. He gives way too much inside for my liking.
Personally, I'd like to see Paul stay instead of Al, because he's just a good, hard-working guy. However, with a good, pass-first minded PG (yes, Rondo would be great), I think Al, Favors and Kanter as our three bigs, sets us up REALLY well for the future.
Grandpa Jazz
Active Member
Agreed! But not as one of their two best players, which....he is! Didn't say marquee scorer, said marquee player. If we had some shooters everything changes.
Zulu
Well-Known Member
Please let us get Rondo! He is what we need at pg and he is young enough to fit in our future plans, he is only 26! I would rather trade Al and I think that's who the celtics would want cause garnet doesn't like playing center!
Besides Landing rondo this will open time for Kanter and favors! Which honestly I didn't think that they would be getting such minimal time. KOC needs to force Ty's hand and trade either Al or Paul!
Plus who had the crazy thought that rondo couldn't average 10 dimes with the Jazz. Freakin' tinsley plays one game after sitting the bench all season and got 10+ dimes!!
Besides Landing rondo this will open time for Kanter and favors! Which honestly I didn't think that they would be getting such minimal time. KOC needs to force Ty's hand and trade either Al or Paul!
Plus who had the crazy thought that rondo couldn't average 10 dimes with the Jazz. Freakin' tinsley plays one game after sitting the bench all season and got 10+ dimes!!
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
...or even a two, for that matter. We are the gang that couldn't shoot straight! Of course, if you really wanted to see some pathetic shooting last night, check out the box score of the Clipper/Cav's game. They combined for 34 three point shots.....and made only 6 of them! They missed 28 three point shots!!!
Why are we stuck with that? We don't have to be stuck with that, it is Coach Ty's decision and he can always make another decision. I for one and tired of watching those two start and play zero defense. Against the Clips, they started off giving up 5 straight highlight real dunks. And what did Ty do? Call a time out and chew some butt? Nope.
Start Favors with Big Slow and let Sap go with Kanter. Much better mix of offense/defense. Looks pretty obvious to me, especially with the team sucking right now.
You are a math wiz!!!