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Si.com Players to watch at Training Camp - Paul Millsap

Somebody is going to need a big man and Al has an expiring contract. If we can swap him for an expiring deal and draft pick, I am all for it.
 
We should just take ol' yeller (Millsplooge) out back and put him out of his misery. Then we can clone Jeffy a few times and trot out a lineup of:

Jeffy-Jeffy-Jeffy-SexualF-Jeffy

All that wicked footwork plus F's ability to erase any PnR or transition opportunities for opponents would render the Jazz invincible. #****MyLife
 
GVC said:
We should just take ol' yeller (Millsplooge) out back and put him out of his misery. Then we can clone Jeffy a few times and trot out a lineup of:

Jeffy-Jeffy-Jeffy-SexualF-Jeffy

All that wicked footwork plus F's ability to erase any PnR or transition opportunities for opponents would render the Jazz invincible. #****MyLife
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That would be awesome to see. One Jeffy with the ball, and the other 3 Jeffy's calling for it because they are open or have good positioning. It would also be awesome to see 10 guys within 5 feet of the basket. That makes for food fun basketball. If we can do this, I think we should push for no shot clock, and no 5 second rule, or 3 seconds in the key... this way we can win the game 2-0 as long as we have Favors take the tip.
 
Again, WE ARE NOT BETTER WITHOUT AL! I'm all for moving him to develop for the future, but it's delusional to think we are flat out better without him on the roster.
 
dip, i won't go point for point on the "we are not better without al" claim -- although i could, and then this thread would become another 8-page diatribe on the breakdown of al jefferson as a player... what i will say is that we are going to be better in 3 years if favors is a star, and he'll never be that with al in front of him. so it's a choice: do we wanna be kinda good with al, or do we wanna embrace the future and start working toward being a contending team with derrick?

back to the who-should-start debate, i really think millsap at SF is gimmicky and should only be used in the right situations. i don't think it's a night-in-night-out solution. having said that, i agree with numb - the guy has been our best player and needs to get 30 minutes a night. that's why i'd say right now, if ty isn't going to bring al off the bench, then derrick has to be the 6th man. that sucks, but i don't see another solution that makes sense other than reducing al's role or trading him.

that said, there will be trades made this training camp in the NBA. no idea if the jazz will be a part of it, but there are several teams that still need to make deals, so i think GM phone lines will be busy this october. keep an eye on houston. they've got 20 guys on their roster (18 guaranteed) and if they hit the end of the month without having made some 2-for-1 trades, they're going to wind up having to cut recent 1st-round picks. i'm sure morey is getting and making a lot of calls.
 
The writing is on the wall. Sap will be kept, unless he gets wayyy overpaid, in that case they'll keep Al. But Millsap is obviously the teams priority. Even Al knows it, he's mentioned in multiple interviews that he hopes the Jazz keep him and that he'd be lucky to stick around, he sees whats up as well. Honestly, unless Al brings back some asset he'll be allowed to expire and the Al v. Sap extension will begin in the offseason. I just can't see the Jazz giving up Al for nothing or a bad contract, and I can't see the Jazz choosing Al over Sap.

I think the starting lineup will be Williams/Hayward/Williams/Sap/Al for the opener, with Favors getting no less than 30 a night.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
The writing is on the wall. Sap will be kept, unless he gets wayyy overpaid, in that case they'll keep Al. But Millsap is obviously the teams priority. Even Al knows it, he's mentioned in multiple interviews that he hopes the Jazz keep him and that he'd be lucky to stick around, he sees whats up as well. Honestly, unless Al brings back some asset he'll be allowed to expire and the Al v. Sap extension will begin in the offseason. I just can't see the Jazz giving up Al for nothing or a bad contract, and I can't see the Jazz choosing Al over Sap.

I think the starting lineup will be Williams/Hayward/Williams/Sap/Al for the opener, with Favors getting no less than 30 a night.
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agree with just about everything here. i think the jazz will be looking for a combination of future picks and rotation players (not necessarily stars) in an al trade.

i still love my houston-toronto-utah trade idea. jazz get jose calderon and terrence jones/royce white in exchange for al. toronto gets kevin martin since they lack wing scoring and have 2 starting-caliber PGs. houston gets rid of martin's contract, adds a quasi-star (and a guy their coach loves) and trims their roster a bit.
 
We have discussed this "who starts" topic recently. I remember somebody making a good point in that Al should start but be subbed out within a few minutes. Then he's brought back in against the opponents 2nd tear guys and allowed to dominate. That leaves our better defenders (Sap and Favors) to handle the starters for most of the game.
 
just because said:
We have discussed this "who starts" topic recently. I remember somebody making a good point in that Al should start but be subbed out within a few minutes. Then he's brought back in against the opponents 2nd tear guys and allowed to dominate. That leaves our better defenders (Sap and Favors) to handle the starters for most of the game.
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my response to this idea remains the same: if we're trying to limit al's exposure to opposing starting units, then that makes it pretty clear that he's not starter-caliber.
 
theNBAnerd said:
dip, i won't go point for point on the "we are not better without al" claim -- although i could, and then this thread would become another 8-page diatribe on the breakdown of al jefferson as a player... what i will say is that we are going to be better in 3 years if favors is a star, and he'll never be that with al in front of him. so it's a choice: do we wanna be kinda good with al, or do we wanna embrace the future and start working toward being a contending team with derrick?

back to the who-should-start debate, i really think millsap at SF is gimmicky and should only be used in the right situations. i don't think it's a night-in-night-out solution. having said that, i agree with numb - the guy has been our best player and needs to get 30 minutes a night. that's why i'd say right now, if ty isn't going to bring al off the bench, then derrick has to be the 6th man. that sucks, but i don't see another solution that makes sense other than reducing al's role or trading him.

that said, there will be trades made this training camp in the NBA. no idea if the jazz will be a part of it, but there are several teams that still need to make deals, so i think GM phone lines will be busy this october. keep an eye on houston. they've got 20 guys on their roster (18 guaranteed) and if they hit the end of the month without having made some 2-for-1 trades, they're going to wind up having to cut recent 1st-round picks. i'm sure morey is getting and making a lot of calls.
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I 100% agree that I am for moving Al so Favors gets the PT necessary to improve because he will be a better player and I'd like that to happen sooner or later. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on how Al leaving the team affects wins.
 
dipship31 said:
I 100% agree that I am for moving Al so Favors gets the PT necessary to improve because he will be a better player and I'd like that to happen sooner or later. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on how Al leaving the team affects wins.
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all numbers indicate that if you removed al from the team and redistributed his possessions in a proportionate way, our team offense would stay just as efficient. our defense, naturally, would improve.

but even if i'm wrong on that and there is a short-term drop-off (which could happen since really the big change would be from al to whatever 4th big gets rotation minutes), it's worth weathering that short-term change so we're better in the future.

on that, i think we're saying the same thing.
 
RaulLopez said:
The Jazz are first and foremost going to try to win this season. Even if Favors, Millsap and Jefferson are not all "happy" the Jazz will try to win games. They won't get equal value by trading Millsap and probably won't by trading Jefferson. they will get back a crappy contract of some sort by trading Jefferson. But the Jazz have shown their hand. They want to retain Millsap. One, they offered him a contract extension. Two, they have passed on too many trades for Millsap so far. You don't pass on trading for Kevin Martin, Kyle Lowry, and Ryan Anderson and then turn around and try to shop that player. The Jazz are keeping Millsap as long as they can. Also, Millsap is such a fan favorite among Jazz fans generally, that it would have to be a home run type deal to trade Millsap. The Jazz aren't going to trade Millsap just to clear up time for Favors. They can just let Jefferson walk at the end of the year to do that.
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Jazz are likely hoping a team with 1-2 very good veterans will decide it's time to rebuild when their season looks lost at the trade deadline. In this case, Utah could put together a nice package (Al's expiring, the GS pick and perhaps another first in 2014), or depending on the player(s), maybe even a youngster like Burks.

I think it likely, however, that no deal gets done. Jazz do not want to take back bad contracts just for the sake of making a trade. Letting Paul AND Al become FA's might be the smartest thing to do. You re-sign one and get salary relief for the other, which allows that money to be directed towards Favors, Hayward and then Burks and Kanter. Or perhaps the Jazz get a nice back-up PF with the GS pick and neither Millsap nor Al get big contract offers from Utah.
 
theNBAnerd said:
all numbers indicate that if you removed al from the team and redistributed his possessions in a proportionate way, our team offense would stay just as efficient. our defense, naturally, would improve.

but even if i'm wrong on that and there is a short-term drop-off (which could happen since really the big change would be from al to whatever 4th big gets rotation minutes), it's worth weathering that short-term change so we're better in the future.

on that, i think we're saying the same thing.
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I love Millsap and what he brings to the team both tangibles and intables. But are you totally confidence that Millsap can be that starting PF on a Championship team?

With all the shooters that KOC has gathered together for this coming season, it's my opinion that they'll likely run the offense inside/out through Al again this year. That, together with the low ball offer they gave Millsap, tells me something about KOC's confidence in those 2 guys in his future plans.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
I love Millsap and what he brings to the team both tangibles and intables. But are you totally confidence that Millsap can be that starting PF on a Championship team?

With all the shooters that KOC has gathered together for this coming season, it's my opinion that they'll likely run the offense inside/out through Al again this year. That, together with the low ball offer they gave Millsap, tells me something about KOC's confidence in those 2 guys in his future plans.
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1. I'm confident Al will never be the centerpiece on a true contender and doesn't have the skill set to be a complementary player.

2. Millsap absolutely can be the starting PF on a championship team, especially if he's only being relied on to be a third (or occasional second) option on O. Dude has a great feel for the game, is a fantastic team player and (these most recent playoffs notwithstanding) comes up big in big moments.

3. What lowball offer? The Jazz offered Millsap the most they could under the current CBA. As far as we know, they've offered Al nothing. The conclusion you've drawn here is nothing short of ****ing retarded.
 
GVC said:
1. I'm confident Al will never be the centerpiece on a true contender and doesn't have the skill set to be a complementary player.

2. Millsap absolutely can be the starting PF on a championship team, especially if he's only being relied on to be a third (or occasional second) option on O. Dude has a great feel for the game, is a fantastic team player and (these most recent playoffs notwithstanding) comes up big in big moments.

3. What lowball offer? The Jazz offered Millsap the most they could under the current CBA. As far as we know, they've offered Al nothing. The conclusion you've drawn here is nothing short of ****ing retarded.
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You're right it's the most they could offer him under the current CBA, but at 3 years $25m, it is still pretty low.

We just have to disagree regarding Millsap being a PF for a championship calibre team. I still think he's just too undersize for the PF position defensively and that's just my opinion.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
You're right it's the most they could offer him under the current CBA, but at 3 years $25m, it is still pretty low.

We just have to disagree regarding Millsap being a PF for a championship calibre team. I still think he's just too undersize for the PF position defensively and that's just my opinion.
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It depends who they're playing in the Finals. Not every team has two seven footers like Gasol and Bynum.
 
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