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Sit Everyone the Rest of the Regular Season

Dallas is probably going to end up in the 3rd seed. They're a good team, but I think the Jazz can beat them. Their secret sauce is that they have Igor Kokoskov on their bench making Jason Kidd look like a solid coach.

If the Jazz can slow down Doncic without completely breaking their defense on guys like Brunson and Dinwiddie, I might pick the Jazz to win the series. Donovan would need to find the nuclear codes again though.
 
I find little difference this year in seeding. Mavs, Warriors, both are beatable and they view us and the Nuggets the same so it's a crapshoot.

To win the west, you are going to have to beat both the Griz and Suns in one particular order or the other if you sneak past the first round. I'm all for trying to sit some guys and approach the playoffs as healthy as you can be (even if I believe are road in the postseason is shaky at best).
 
I find little difference this year in seeding. Mavs, Warriors, both are beatable and they view us and the Nuggets the same so it's a crapshoot.

To win the west, you are going to have to beat both the Griz and Suns in one particular order or the other if you sneak past the first round. I'm all for trying to sit some guys and approach the playoffs as healthy as you can be (even if I believe are road in the postseason is shaky at best).
Look as ****** as we have been... I can see us getting out of the first round through some miracles or unusually hot shooting. So then do you want to face Memphis or the Suns? If you are the type that wants some moral victory then you go with Memphis because we will likely lose but may be more competitive. If you are like me and want the Jazz, their ownership, and their management to see exactly how they measure up against a real contender... then bring on Phoenix. Where we can get properly dissected and utterly destroyed.

The best possible outcome for the season imo is we beat the Warriors and Green cries on court... the worst is we lose to Luka as he scores 50 a game... so give me the Warriors.
 
Mike and Don are sitting tonight, everyone else is playing.
 
Mike and Don are sitting tonight, everyone else is playing.
Better be a quick stint and out… Rudy and Bogey both had calf issues. On a back end of a back to back against a team that would get smacked in the G league… just sit everyone… why risk it?
 
Look as ****** as we have been... I can see us getting out of the first round through some miracles or unusually hot shooting. So then do you want to face Memphis or the Suns? If you are the type that wants some moral victory then you go with Memphis because we will likely lose but may be more competitive. If you are like me and want the Jazz, their ownership, and their management to see exactly how they measure up against a real contender... then bring on Phoenix. Where we can get properly dissected and utterly destroyed.

The best possible outcome for the season imo is we beat the Warriors and Green cries on court... the worst is we lose to Luka as he scores 50 a game... so give me the Warriors.

This is a really good point. I'm obviously rooting for us to get as far as we can in the playoffs, but at the same time, it would be very beneficial for the front office to see how we stack up against the best team in the conference before the offseason the offseason. No more moral victories...we can't afford to mostly run it back again next season, significant changes need to be made.
 
I really couldn't care less about trying to speed run ourselves into the false hope reality that is a tank. There is an infinite amount of time to pretend like the team is going somewhere, but chances to win are actually rare. Reality is that this year might be our best chance to win/go as far as we can in decades. Most rebuilds to not get to the level that Jazz are at this moment. Rest to win as much as you can while you can.
 
I really couldn't care less about trying to speed run ourselves into the false hope reality that is a tank. There is an infinite amount of time to pretend like the team is going somewhere, but chances to win are actually rare. Reality is that this year might be our best chance to win/go as far as we can in decades. Most rebuilds to not get to the level that Jazz are at this moment. Rest to win as much as you can while you can.
I agree... we give it a go this year but our best chance was likely last year... and maybe even the year before. The tank is about next year... and our chances to win next year dwindle quite a bit imo.

Tanking or rebuilding... it generally works pretty well... as long as you have semi-competent management and are committed to it fully for a few years. There is also the chance you strike gold and don't spend a lot of years in the dumps. The teams that fail are generally the ones that wobble back and forth or try and short cut things at the wrong times.

This year was always the last ride as a contender imo because Mike and Joe would age out and we emptied our clip to get here so there is no re-stocking the cupboards... Joe is gone... Mike is next. If Rudy and Don were both in love and committed to the market and each other... then keep it rolling. We know it isn't the case... so accept reality and move hard in one direction. You may not even speed up the process per se... but you can stack a **** ton of assets to help you once you do flip the switch.
 
I agree... we give it a go this year but our best chance was likely last year... and maybe even the year before. The tank is about next year... and our chances to win next year dwindle quite a bit imo.

Tanking or rebuilding... it generally works pretty well... as long as you have semi-competent management and are committed to it fully for a few years. There is also the chance you strike gold and don't spend a lot of years in the dumps. The teams that fail are generally the ones that wobble back and forth or try and short cut things at the wrong times.

This year was always the last ride as a contender imo because Mike and Joe would age out and we emptied our clip to get here so there is no re-stocking the cupboards... Joe is gone... Mike is next. If Rudy and Don were both in love and committed to the market and each other... then keep it rolling. We know it isn't the case... so accept reality and move hard in one direction. You may not even speed up the process per se... but you can stack a **** ton of assets to help you once you do flip the switch.
We got our Karma pick already with DM coming in as Haydouche left. We won't get another one for...

*checks notes*

25 years.
 
I agree... we give it a go this year but our best chance was likely last year... and maybe even the year before. The tank is about next year... and our chances to win next year dwindle quite a bit imo.

Tanking or rebuilding... it generally works pretty well... as long as you have semi-competent management and are committed to it fully for a few years. There is also the chance you strike gold and don't spend a lot of years in the dumps. The teams that fail are generally the ones that wobble back and forth or try and short cut things at the wrong times.

This year was always the last ride as a contender imo because Mike and Joe would age out and we emptied our clip to get here so there is no re-stocking the cupboards... Joe is gone... Mike is next. If Rudy and Don were both in love and committed to the market and each other... then keep it rolling. We know it isn't the case... so accept reality and move hard in one direction. You may not even speed up the process per se... but you can stack a **** ton of assets to help you once you do flip the switch.



I disagree that the teams that fail are the ones that wobble back and forth or try to cut things short. The teams that fail are the one's who are perpetually bad and simply can't make positive moves regardless of if they are forwards/backwards moves. But I suppose being perpetually bad isn't failure in the NBA, not for some at least. Like I was saying before, there's a lot of comfort in being a terrible team if the expectation is to be a terrible team. Many teams have gotten good from breaking things down, but there are also many teams that became good out of "purgatory" and not blowing things up. From my perspective, tanking is way too often tied to success and not often enough to failure. Similarly, every bad move is considered "impatience" or "short sighted" and the conclusion is typically that they should have just tanked instead....well maybe they just made the wrong move. Doesn't mean they were headed in the wrong direction.

Got a little off topic there, but when it comes down to preferring a better chance to win versus a better chance that the franchise tanks....there's no question I prefer the better chance to win. The Jazz are completely in the *****er right now, but I would take this year's odds of winning the title over the next 10-15 years combined....maybe more. When we look back at this 3 year window as a whole, I would have to say it's the greatest opportunity this franchise has ever had to win a championship. The Stockton-Malone Jazz got further, but this 3 year period had a higher probability of winning IMO especially if you consider their missed opportunities to improve. But to be fair, I wasn't wired into the Stockton-Malone Jazz and the potential moves the franchise could have made back then.

I didn't "always" consider this year the last ride. It's undeniable that Don-Rudy is not great when they are losing, but it's just fine when they are winning. We can win with Don and Rudy, no doubt about that in my mind. Those two are really great players. To me the bottom didn't collapse because those two can't mend their differences. The bottom fell out because we put together an incredibly lopsided team that couldn't win around them. This team had enough talent, but not in the right places. (The Jazz also have a very weak playoff coach....we'll see how much of that is Quin vs the roster building in the future, but to me there's a heavy dose of both.) I actually think that if we had Marcus Smart instead of Mike Conley, for example, the Jazz would be in a MUCH better spot than they are right now and we wouldn't be hearing much about drama. So while I'm not holding onto too much hope for advancing into the playoffs, I think a WCF visit would 1) be very enjoyable to watch and a true accomplishment and 2) allow us to run it back one more year with Rudy-Don....this time doing what we should have done last summer and reconfigured the roster.

I'm also a realist and it's pretty obvious that we will never trade Don unless he absolutely demands it. Whether that's good or bad is a different discussion, but that's truth. I don't think there's an *** whooping bad enough that would ever trigger us trading Donovan...and I think Don would actually like to play here if we traded Rudy....for the short term that is.
 
Better be a quick stint and out… Rudy and Bogey both had calf issues. On a back end of a back to back against a team that would get smacked in the G league… just sit everyone… why risk it?
I can't say I've ever been a big fan of sitting out an entire starting lineup.

That said, I'm also not a fan of Rudy and Bogey getting any more than like 20 minutes in this game.
 
I disagree that the teams that fail are the ones that wobble back and forth or try to cut things short. The teams that fail are the one's who are perpetually bad and simply can't make positive moves regardless of if they are forwards/backwards moves. But I suppose being perpetually bad isn't failure in the NBA, not for some at least. Like I was saying before, there's a lot of comfort in being a terrible team if the expectation is to be a terrible team. Many teams have gotten good from breaking things down, but there are also many teams that became good out of "purgatory" and not blowing things up. From my perspective, tanking is way too often tied to success and not often enough to failure. Similarly, every bad move is considered "impatience" or "short sighted" and the conclusion is typically that they should have just tanked instead....well maybe they just made the wrong move. Doesn't mean they were headed in the wrong direction.

Got a little off topic there, but when it comes down to preferring a better chance to win versus a better chance that the franchise tanks....there's no question I prefer the better chance to win. The Jazz are completely in the *****er right now, but I would take this year's odds of winning the title over the next 10-15 years combined....maybe more. When we look back at this 3 year window as a whole, I would have to say it's the greatest opportunity this franchise has ever had to win a championship. The Stockton-Malone Jazz got further, but this 3 year period had a higher probability of winning IMO especially if you consider their missed opportunities to improve. But to be fair, I wasn't wired into the Stockton-Malone Jazz and the potential moves the franchise could have made back then.

I didn't "always" consider this year the last ride. It's undeniable that Don-Rudy is not great when they are losing, but it's just fine when they are winning. We can win with Don and Rudy, no doubt about that in my mind. Those two are really great players. To me the bottom didn't collapse because those two can't mend their differences. The bottom fell out because we put together an incredibly lopsided team that couldn't win around them. This team had enough talent, but not in the right places. (The Jazz also have a very weak playoff coach....we'll see how much of that is Quin vs the roster building in the future, but to me there's a heavy dose of both.) I actually think that if we had Marcus Smart instead of Mike Conley, for example, the Jazz would be in a MUCH better spot than they are right now and we wouldn't be hearing much about drama. So while I'm not holding onto too much hope for advancing into the playoffs, I think a WCF visit would 1) be very enjoyable to watch and a true accomplishment and 2) allow us to run it back one more year with Rudy-Don....this time doing what we should have done last summer and reconfigured the roster.

I'm also a realist and it's pretty obvious that we will never trade Don unless he absolutely demands it. Whether that's good or bad is a different discussion, but that's truth. I don't think there's an *** whooping bad enough that would ever trigger us trading Donovan...and I think Don would actually like to play here if we traded Rudy....for the short term that is.
Stockton Malone Jazz had a by far better opportunity at a championship. We’re a couple calls away or even just shooting a little better… they also completed two trades that would have made a material difference… and the players refused to report.

Don/Rudy Jazz are comparable to the DWill Jazz imo. Almost all title teams have a top 10 player… more likely a top 5-7 player. So I never saw us as a super serious contender… If we had amazing chemistry maybe they make a Pistons type run but it was going to be a pretty weird outlier.

You are right they don’t have the stones to trade Donovan… I mean internets can’t even say he doesn’t pass to one of his teammates without a 20 minute rant by the head coach… doesn’t mean it’s not the right move though.

There are a lot of reasons tanks/rebuilds fail. Impatience is at the top of the list for me though. You do have teams that pass on Luka… but most of the time if you draft in the top 5 for a few years even dumbasses will get lucky. Orlando should have moved vet pieces earlier but they also got some tough lotto luck… moved up when it was the victor oladipo draft… but in general the biggest failings come from not going all the way to the bottom and staying there long enough.

It can be painful… it can be fruitless but it can fairly easily get us back to where we are and has the highest upside. It’s not the only strategy but gives a team like the Jazz the best possible hand… because our stars will have to come from the draft. Collecting extra picks gives you additional chances later to strike gold… maybe you find the next Giannis… or Jokic… or maybe those were the greatest picks of all time?

The cupboards are bare… the money coffers are empty… key components are aging… and yet if I thought Don and Rudy would get the best out of each other I’d continue forward… but splitting the pair likely leads to the middle ground that is the most frustrating for most fans.
 
Stockton Malone Jazz had a by far better opportunity at a championship. We’re a couple calls away or even just shooting a little better… they also completed two trades that would have made a material difference… and the players refused to report.

Don/Rudy Jazz are comparable to the DWill Jazz imo. Almost all title teams have a top 10 player… more likely a top 5-7 player. So I never saw us as a super serious contender… If we had amazing chemistry maybe they make a Pistons type run but it was going to be a pretty weird outlier.

You are right they don’t have the stones to trade Donovan… I mean internets can’t even say he doesn’t pass to one of his teammates without a 20 minute rant by the head coach… doesn’t mean it’s not the right move though.

There are a lot of reasons tanks/rebuilds fail. Impatience is at the top of the list for me though. You do have teams that pass on Luka… but most of the time if you draft in the top 5 for a few years even dumbasses will get lucky. Orlando should have moved vet pieces earlier but they also got some tough lotto luck… moved up when it was the victor oladipo draft… but in general the biggest failings come from not going all the way to the bottom and staying there long enough.

It can be painful… it can be fruitless but it can fairly easily get us back to where we are and has the highest upside. It’s not the only strategy but gives a team like the Jazz the best possible hand… because our stars will have to come from the draft. Collecting extra picks gives you additional chances later to strike gold… maybe you find the next Giannis… or Jokic… or maybe those were the greatest picks of all time?

The cupboards are bare… the money coffers are empty… key components are aging… and yet if I thought Don and Rudy would get the best out of each other I’d continue forward… but splitting the pair likely leads to the middle ground that is the most frustrating for most fans.

I don't think the Stockton-Malone Jazz were ever favorites to win the title at any point during their run. The Jazz were favorites to win the title last year during the second round of the playoffs. If you want to put the Stockton/Malone Jazz ahead....sure but I don't think the DWill-Boozer Jazz were close to last year's Jazz teams. I don't particularly care about how good the first, second, third best players are. That used to be a big thing, but we don't see that "best player on a championship team" thing as much anymore. What I've cared about it is how good the team is, irrelevant of what you rank the best player as. There's obviously a ton of overlap between teams with the best players and the teams with the best performance, but I've always cared about team performance > individual player rankings when talking about teams. Has always made more sense to me. The 2021 Jazz were one of the most dominant regular season teams ever. They rivaled Warrior teams with their dominance and the West was very weak. Nearly all the contenders had issues. Kawhi injured, CP3 had covid.....yeah there wasn't a DWill/Booz year that was remotely comparable to the 2021 Jazz.

For the record, I do think it's incredibly dumb to trade the player you try to tank for unless he wants to leave immediately. It's not a possibility anyways. Don is here until he doesn't want to be here, plain and simple.

I totally disagree when pro tank people talk about the pain and suffering as a trade for "high upside" and championship utility. That just isn't true at all. I'd be willing to bet that the person who is saying that would probably be happier watching a tanking team. I've mentioned this many times, but watching a team with zero expectations and is trying to lose on purpose will suit the hardcore fan much more. OKC fans are probably enjoying this game where Theo Maledon is too good to play and risk winning than Jazz fans watching their supposed title contender. It is what it is. It may be painful the casual fan, and sometimes the owners pockets (competing for a title is wayyy more expensive for Ryan Smith RN). I also completely disagree with the idea that we can get back to where we are easily. Tanking is easy, no doubt about that. Anyone can suck, it's really easy to lose on purpose. Finding success is much more difficult and building a team that can be a title contender and favorite is not easy.

I just don't buy into the idea that "not tanking hard enough" is the common failure. Tanking is definitely not necessary, it doesn't raise the ceiling (bc you can win a title with or without tanking and that is the ceiling), and I also don't believe automatically gives you the best chances of reaching that championship ceiling. If you go back in history and look at championship winners and contenders, you won't find as many tanktastic teams as you'd think. The one's that did probably needed a strong sequence of non-tanking moves to actually reach the summit and it feels unjust to chalk it all up to tanking. What you would find is a lot of teams that would have blown their opportunity or championship win if they followed that philosophy.
 
I don't think the Stockton-Malone Jazz were ever favorites to win the title at any point during their run. The Jazz were favorites to win the title last year during the second round of the playoffs. If you want to put the Stockton/Malone Jazz ahead....sure but I don't think the DWill-Boozer Jazz were close to last year's Jazz teams. I don't particularly care about how good the first, second, third best players are. That used to be a big thing, but we don't see that "best player on a championship team" thing as much anymore. What I've cared about it is how good the team is, irrelevant of what you rank the best player as. There's obviously a ton of overlap between teams with the best players and the teams with the best performance, but I've always cared about team performance > individual player rankings when talking about teams. Has always made more sense to me. The 2021 Jazz were one of the most dominant regular season teams ever. They rivaled Warrior teams with their dominance and the West was very weak. Nearly all the contenders had issues. Kawhi injured, CP3 had covid.....yeah there wasn't a DWill/Booz year that was remotely comparable to the 2021 Jazz.

For the record, I do think it's incredibly dumb to trade the player you try to tank for unless he wants to leave immediately. It's not a possibility anyways. Don is here until he doesn't want to be here, plain and simple.

I totally disagree when pro tank people talk about the pain and suffering as a trade for "high upside" and championship utility. That just isn't true at all. I'd be willing to bet that the person who is saying that would probably be happier watching a tanking team. I've mentioned this many times, but watching a team with zero expectations and is trying to lose on purpose will suit the hardcore fan much more. OKC fans are probably enjoying this game where Theo Maledon is too good to play and risk winning than Jazz fans watching their supposed title contender. It is what it is. It may be painful the casual fan, and sometimes the owners pockets (competing for a title is wayyy more expensive for Ryan Smith RN). I also completely disagree with the idea that we can get back to where we are easily. Tanking is easy, no doubt about that. Anyone can suck, it's really easy to lose on purpose. Finding success is much more difficult and building a team that can be a title contender and favorite is not easy.

I just don't buy into the idea that "not tanking hard enough" is the common failure. Tanking is definitely not necessary, it doesn't raise the ceiling (bc you can win a title with or without tanking and that is the ceiling), and I also don't believe automatically gives you the best chances of reaching that championship ceiling. If you go back in history and look at championship winners and contenders, you won't find as many tanktastic teams as you'd think. The one's that did probably needed a strong sequence of non-tanking moves to actually reach the summit and it feels unjust to chalk it all up to tanking. What you would find is a lot of teams that would have blown their opportunity or championship win if they followed that philosophy.
I give zero ***** who was the “favorite” the Malone Jazz went to the finals twice and were within a couple ****** calls of winning it… this team hasn’t even come a couple ****** calls from making the conference finals. Malone was an mvp… have any of our guys gotten an mvp vote. It’s not close at all.

As for tanking/rebuilding… small markets will build through the draft… the way to increase the quality and amount of your draft picks is to rebuild… it isn’t necessary if you can find beat the biggest of odds and get Giannis or Jokic but the vast majority of championship teams were built on guys drafted very high… the Jazz have one way to get those type of guys.
 
What tweet got deleted?

It was a tweet from Dan Clayton talking about playoff scenarios. In the tweet he said that there is no longer a path for the Jazz to be the 4 seed, which it turns out isn't 100% true...there is still a tiny chance the Jazz could end up 4th but it's extremely unlikely.
 
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