What's new
By:

SLC Summer League Game 3: Jazz v. Spurs

UtahJazz32 said:
Clearly im just trolling since I've been here before you. DL got lucky with Mitchell.

Remember Burke, Lyles, Hood , Exum Allen ? How did they pan out also Hill ? And Bradley? The run back and the laying of eggs in the off-season and trade deadline ? Yep all DL ? Zanik comes here and does more than DL' s tenure so yeah
Talk more about the holistic situation not 2 instances.
Click to expand...

DL is still running the show. Don't be so naive.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz
 
UtahJazz32 said:
He is overseeing but not orchestrating ...
Click to expand...

firegirl said:
Nope.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz
Click to expand...
The rumor was that other teams were interested in Zanik as a GM candidate. Promoting him to that title in Utah means the Jazz wouldn't give other teams permission for interviews.

This isn't like the last transition when KOC was shuttled out the door as a special consultant.
Dennis is still very much involved. It was his blueprint to point everything to THIS summer.

I've been his most outspoken critic on this board, even going too far at times in venting my frustration. I think he was too hesitant to make moves. Didn't support him doing a "GM Tank" when he refused to give Utah a decent bench after he took over. Wasn't until the summer of discontent when Hayward allegedly made his trade request that Lindsey traded for Hill and signed a few guys in a futile attempt to keep Gordon. Even last year he could have signed a vet or two to a 1-yr deal.

But he arranged for the contracts of Thabo and Udoh to expire. Rubio's contract expired. He signed Neto and Favors to deals that could be gotten out of this off-season. He only traded for Korver who had a minimal guarantee. Crowder was pretty cheap and had value either in the rotation or as a trade chip. Lindsey went hard after Conley the deadline and a trade was finally struck this summer after Memphis got a new GM. Really his only "folly" was Dante's deal. And that's hindsight. Dante killed it the summer he and Mitchell played in the SL. So I can't fault him for valuing Exum off what we all saw then.

Lindsey has always said the decisions are made in Utah by the group (which would include Morway and Snyder too). I'm sure Zanik has more responsibilities than he did, but someone has to have the final say. I have zero doubts Dennis has that power.
 
Jack Strop said:
The rumor was that other teams were interested in Zanik as a GM candidate. Promoting him to that title in Utah means the Jazz wouldn't give other teams permission for interviews.

This isn't like the last transition when KOC was shuttled out the door as a special consultant.
Dennis is still very much involved. It was his blueprint to point everything to THIS summer.

I've been his most outspoken critic on this board, even going too far at times in venting my frustration. I think he was too hesitant to make moves. Didn't support him doing a "GM Tank" when he refused to give Utah a decent bench after he took over. Wasn't until the summer of discontent when Hayward allegedly made his trade request that Lindsey traded for Hill and signed a few guys in a futile attempt to keep Gordon. Even last year he could have signed a vet or two to a 1-yr deal.

But he arranged for the contracts of Thabo and Udoh to expire. Rubio's contract expired. He signed Neto and Favors to deals that could be gotten out of this off-season. He only traded for Korver who had a minimal guarantee. Crowder was pretty cheap and had value either in the rotation or as a trade chip. Lindsey went hard after Conley the deadline and a trade was finally struck this summer after Memphis got a new GM. Really his only "folly" was Dante's deal. And that's hindsight. Dante killed it the summer he and Mitchell played in the SL. So I can't fault him for valuing Exum off what we all saw then.

Lindsey has always said the decisions are made in Utah by the group (which would include Morway and Snyder too). I'm sure Zanik has more responsibilities than he did, but someone has to have the final say. I have zero doubts Dennis has that power.
Click to expand...

Well said we have a different system here than other team's. The fact remains however that this off-season was different from the DL norm, that's why I'm saying hats off to Zanik
 
kabenac said:
Based on need I can see Brantley making the roster.
Click to expand...

I could see Brantley making the roster and pushing Niang for minutes. Then if he can't get on the floor, he can develop in the G-League. JWF might make the roster as well. Miye Oni could make the roster or be a 2-way.
 
Catchall said:
I could see Brantley making the roster and pushing Niang for minutes. Then if he can't get on the floor, he can develop in the G-League. JWF might make the roster as well. Miye Oni could make the roster or be a 2-way.
Click to expand...

I already see more potential in Brantley than Niang.
 
Lmao. It was one summer league game against scrubs. Relax people. He might miss those threes in the next three games.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Lmao. It was one summer league game against scrubs. Relax people. He might miss those threes in the next three games.
Click to expand...

Regardless I see more flashes of versatility from Brantley than I see with Niang. I feel Georges like Exum are our weaker roster spots that need upgrades.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Really DL got lucky with both of those pics. Just like Milwaukee did with giannis. It doesn't make him a savant to have a couple late first rounders pay off. It happens From time to time but it was even money they wouldn't. We even had Gobert detractors here for a season or 2, and he did play in the g league a bit. I think DL has done a worse than average job at roster management, and I think his short-sightedness cost us in terms of holding good players as well as not taking the risks necessary to win. The FO making some moves this year isn't particularly bold either, because there was so much writing on the wall that literally everyone knew they had to do something or risk losing not just their 2 budding stars, but a good chunk of fan support as well.
Click to expand...
With that logic, every player ever picked was lucky. Nobody knows for sure someone will pan out or we wouldn’t have so many busted or underperforming #1 picks.

The facts are that DL made moves to pick DM and Gobert so clearly he saw something in them. Was it a guarantee? As to moving up for Burke, he did do it even if it sounds like he was Corbins choice. He’s on the hook for being the final call. I’m sure you’ve never done something you didn’t want just because your wife, kid, or friend wanted to so you wouldn’t understand.

It’s silly to say successful moves were luck yet say all failures were his fault. That my friend is faulty logic.
 
Jazz Spazz said:
With that logic, every player ever picked was lucky. Nobody knows for sure someone will pan out or we wouldn’t have so many busted or underperforming #1 picks.

The facts are that DL made moves to pick DM and Gobert so clearly he saw something in them. Was it a guarantee? As to moving up for Burke, he did do it even if it sounds like he was Corbins choice. He’s on the hook for being the final call. I’m sure you’ve never done something you didn’t want just because your wife, kid, or friend wanted to so you wouldn’t understand.

It’s silly to say successful moves were luck yet say all failures were his fault. That my friend is faulty logic.
Click to expand...
It's also silly to say that every pick that panned out was because of the highly developed gift of discernment of the person making the pick. Luck is involved in every single pick. This is proven with statistics by the way. It's pretty easily shown that the later you pick in the draft, the less likely that pick turns into a star, or even a starter or role player. It's not mystical and even the very best FO people end up with bombs. Was it DL (might have been KOC can't remember) that moved up to draft Burke over the Greek freak? Or Lyles, or even Exum over...guess who...taken at 27 in that same draft...Bogdonovich! To try to say that these picks are all about the skill and knowledge of the people making the picks is actually far more ridiculous than saying that it's 100% about luck. After you get out of the top 5 picks even, the luck factor gets dramatically higher. Out of the lottery even more so.

Yes they have to have enough knowledge to build their big board, to know how to rank the incoming players, to analyze what fits with the team or who the next BPA might be, more than the casual fan obviously. That is generally where the top GMs differentiate themselves. But every single GM has many more failures on their list of career picks than successes. How is that explained if not luck?
 
Jazz Spazz said:
With that logic, every player ever picked was lucky. Nobody knows for sure someone will pan out or we wouldn’t have so many busted or underperforming #1 picks.

The facts are that DL made moves to pick DM and Gobert so clearly he saw something in them. Was it a guarantee? As to moving up for Burke, he did do it even if it sounds like he was Corbins choice. He’s on the hook for being the final call. I’m sure you’ve never done something you didn’t want just because your wife, kid, or friend wanted to so you wouldn’t understand.

It’s silly to say successful moves were luck yet say all failures were his fault. That my friend is faulty logic.
Click to expand...
As for your last paragraph, he gets equal credit for all of his picks really. Do the math, has he drafted more generational talent or more busts?

Also you need to keep up with the discussion. I was not making the claim that he only gets credit for the bad picks, I was arguing against the idea that he is some savant because he saw something in Gobert and Mitchell. I think he is above average as a GM in general but the idea that he is some mystical soothsayer because he moved up a few spots to pick Mitchell is ridiculous.
 
LogGrad98 said:
As for your last paragraph, he gets equal credit for all of his picks really. Do the math, has he drafted more generational talent or more busts?

Also you need to keep up with the discussion. I was not making the claim that he only gets credit for the bad picks, I was arguing against the idea that he is some savant because he saw something in Gobert and Mitchell. I think he is above average as a GM in general but the idea that he is some mystical soothsayer because he moved up a few spots to pick Mitchell is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Ok.

To me it didn't sound like you have been saying DL is an above average GM, but that he's an idiot for drafting Burke and getting lucky with DM and Gobert, among other things.
I aplologize for not keeping up with the discussion adequately.
It will happen again.
 
LogGrad98 said:
As for your last paragraph, he gets equal credit for all of his picks really. Do the math, has he drafted more generational talent or more busts?

Also you need to keep up with the discussion. I was not making the claim that he only gets credit for the bad picks, I was arguing against the idea that he is some savant because he saw something in Gobert and Mitchell. I think he is above average as a GM in general but the idea that he is some mystical soothsayer because he moved up a few spots to pick Mitchell is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you need to keep up, because you're arguing against an idea that hasn't been posed. I haven't seen anybody claim that DL is/was a savant, or extraordinarily good at his job. Above average, good, very good even, yes. Savant? Nobody has said that.

You've knocked his drafting more than you've complimented it, said he's below average in roster management, yet you still think he's above average overall? How did you get there with all of the above being true in your mind?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top