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Somebody explain Derrick Williams love to a Jazz Fan

billyshelby said:
This is Chad Ford's pre-draft assessment of Beasley: "Great athlete with long arms. Deep, deep range on his jump shot. Excellent hands. Amazing rebounder. Will score on you inside and out. Uses power in the post combined with excellent leaping ability. Has an excellent jump shot with NBA 3-point range. Has the versatility to play both the 3 and the 4 on virtually every team in the league."

Sounds a lot like Williams to me. Moral of the story: Playing 4 in college, and then transitioning to the 3 in the NBA isn't so easy.
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There is more to the game than raw talent or skill. Beasley's shot-selection has always been questionable, as has his mental fortitude. Williams is not Beasley.
 
billyshelby said:
This is Chad Ford's pre-draft assessment of Beasley: "Great athlete with long arms. Deep, deep range on his jump shot. Excellent hands. Amazing rebounder. Will score on you inside and out. Uses power in the post combined with excellent leaping ability. Has an excellent jump shot with NBA 3-point range. Has the versatility to play both the 3 and the 4 on virtually every team in the league."

Sounds a lot like Williams to me. Moral of the story: Playing 4 in college, and then transitioning to the 3 in the NBA isn't so easy.
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Beasley is also a pot head, dumber than a box of rocks, and incredibly immature - he was kicked out of a movie theater a few months ago....
Even with that said, Beasley did average 20 ppg last year, not exactly shabby for a 22 year old.
 
DWill 2 from his draft interview: "Even I amaze myself sometimes."
Humility is not his strong point it seems. While its good to be confident, that type of attitude also produces uncoachable players. He has probably moved down a notch on my list.
 
Jazz4ever said:
DWill 2 from his draft interview: "Even I amaze myself sometimes."
Humility is not his strong point it seems. While its good to be confident, that type of attitude also produces uncoachable players. He has probably moved down a notch on my list.
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Did you watch the rest of the interview? Do you understand how him saying that could be an argument for his humility (that he doesn't expect to put up 25 points in a half)? His was my favorite interview that I've seen.
 
Jazz4ever said:
DWill 2 from his draft interview: "Even I amaze myself sometimes."
Humility is not his strong point it seems. While its good to be confident, that type of attitude also produces uncoachable players. He has probably moved down a notch on my list.
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Did you watch the rest of the interview? Do you understand how him saying that could be an argument for his humility (that he doesn't expect to put up 25 points in a half)? I didn't think his interview was bad at all.
 
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Bodhi said:
I'll also ask again, who do you want at 3?
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Ironically enough, Williams is on that list. The guys I like are Knight and Biyombo. But my idea of how to draft is not to simply take the best guy at 3 and 12. Like, if he has Knight and Biyombo rated pretty even on future potential, he could trade back to 6 knowing one of them will be there as long as the asset he picks up in that deal is worth it. Alternately, if he is convinced Williams is a superstar in the making, I wouldn't be upset if he traded the 3 and 12 to get him. If he did that, I would know that Utah scouts truly see Williams as a bona fide 3 in the NBA and I'd get on board.
 
billyshelby said:
The crazy thing is Beasley absolutely dwarfed Williams stats with the same frame playing the same position and has better athleticism.
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Williams' efficiency, both shooting the ball and drawing fouls, was head and shoulders better than Beasley's. Beasley was the better rebounder.
 
GVC said:
Williams' efficiency, both shooting the ball and drawing fouls, was head and shoulders better than Beasley's. Beasley was the better rebounder.
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Not if you compare their freshmen numbers. Williams gets a slight nod in FG%. But Williams wasn't anywhere near the dominant player Beasley was in college. It's beside the point, anyway. Beasley was considered a lock to transition to the 3. Scouts are iffy on Williams making the transition. I am, too, but I defer to KOC on that.
 
billyshelby said:
Not if you compare their freshmen numbers. Williams gets a slight nod in FG%. But Williams wasn't anywhere near the dominant player Beasley was in college. It's beside the point, anyway. Beasley was considered a lock to transition to the 3. Scouts are iffy on Williams making the transition. I am, too, but I defer to KOC on that.
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Getting to the line counts, especially in the NBA. And, fwiw, I was and still am a Beasley fan. The Jazz could do a lot worse than picking up a mature Michael Beasley, especially since Williams seems to have a much better feel for the game (which, like drawing fouls, counts for a hell of a lot).
 
billyshelby said:
Not if you compare their freshmen numbers. Williams gets a slight nod in FG%. But Williams wasn't anywhere near the dominant player Beasley was in college. It's beside the point, anyway. Beasley was considered a lock to transition to the 3. Scouts are iffy on Williams making the transition. I am, too, but I defer to KOC on that.
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I seem to remember everyone thinking Beasley might be half-crazy but might be a PF/C until he measured out as a tweener, only one position lower. I also see Williams as more athletic, or at he very least, far more aggressive to take advantage of what he's been given.

And don't go by their freshman numbers. You're comparing a sensational one-and-done top-100 player to a guy that made himself and has a great head on his shoulders. If you give Michael Beasley a brain, and in this **** draft, drafting him at two or three is a decision everyone makes. Or should. Maybe not the Timberwolves since they are cursed and retarded.
 
billyshelby said:
Not if you compare their freshmen numbers. Williams gets a slight nod in FG%. But Williams wasn't anywhere near the dominant player Beasley was in college. It's beside the point, anyway. Beasley was considered a lock to transition to the 3. Scouts are iffy on Williams making the transition. I am, too, but I defer to KOC on that.
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You should compare numbers coming out of college, and numbers from the players' last year in college, not analogous years. Williams isn't in the draft after his freshman year.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
You should compare numbers coming out of college, and numbers from the players' last year in college, not analogous years. Williams isn't in the draft after his freshman year.
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d

Disagree. I'm not comparing the numbers of a 4th year senior to a one and done freshman to use an extreme example. The 4th year senior's numbers are going to be inflated, just as a second year player should see improvement as he gains experience, learns the college game, and increasingly plays against younger players. Some guys really get better. Some guys really get better at college ball.
 
billyshelby said:
d

Disagree. I'm not comparing the numbers of a 4th year senior to a one and done freshman to use an extreme example. The 4th year senior's numbers are going to be inflated, just as a second year player should see improvement as he gains experience, learns the college game, and increasingly plays against younger players. Some guys really get better. Some guys really get better at college ball.
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Players that have high stock and pull out of the draft get worse or don't get any better as much or more often as get better. Ceiling isn't determined strictly by age, I would expect someone that was upset with Sloan for 'not-developing' Ronnie Price at 26-years old to understand that.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I seem to remember everyone thinking Beasley might be half-crazy but might be a PF/C until he measured out as a tweener, only one position lower. I also see Williams as more athletic, or at he very least, far more aggressive to take advantage of what he's been given.

And don't go by their freshman numbers. You're comparing a sensational one-and-done top-100 player to a guy that made himself and has a great head on his shoulders. If you give Michael Beasley a brain, and in this **** draft, drafting him at two or three is a decision everyone makes. Or should. Maybe not the Timberwolves since they are cursed and retarded.
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I'm not discounting Beasley's mental issues. But it's a little naive to assume Williams will make a clean transition when the same scouts that said Beasley would have no trouble doing it are iffy that Williams can. The point is it's not purely mental. A guy like Cousins, a true basket case, had little difficulty because he's playing the exact same way he played in college brutalizing the paint and using his array of post moves to score. Guys like Williams and Beasley, who scored a lot of college points posting up, suddenly have to find ways to score off the dribble and movement while defending guys that run around really fast. It's a very big transition.
 
billyshelby said:
I'm not discounting Beasley's mental issues. But it's a little naive to assume Williams will make a clean transition when the same scouts that said Beasley would have no trouble doing it are iffy that Williams can. The point is it's not purely mental. A guy like Cousins, a true basket case, had little difficulty because he's playing the exact same way he played in college brutalizing the paint and using his array of post moves to score. Guys like Williams and Beasley, who scored a lot of college points posting up, suddenly have to find ways to score off the dribble and movement while defending guys that run around really fast. It's a very big transition.
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Umm. Michael Beasley's problem transitioning has been close to 100% mental. He shrunk because he was forced to start thinking and couldn't just destroy the competition on auto-pilot. And Cousins hasn't had a perfect year either. He might be ROY if he didn't have parts of his brain rotting.
 
billyshelby said:
A guy like Cousins, a true basket case, had little difficulty because he's playing the exact same way he played in college brutalizing the paint and using his array of post moves to score.
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I was a big Cousins fan, but the stats don't support this post. Cousins shot 43% from the floor this season. He wasn't brutalizing anything.
 
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