Someone make a game thread, and get rid of baseless hypothetical trade threads

[Hantlers]

Who cares if they're our 2 best players right now? We fricken suck and two players that are supposed to build our future are behind them. Keeping Al and Sap isn't going to make us a better team in 2-3 years, playing our young guys will. Yeah, we'll lose more games right now with them playing a lot...but just think of the future. Right now it just doesn't matter if Al and Sap are our best players, we have to build for the future and the only who could possibly be part of that is Sap...if he's willing to come off the bench.

 

[Nate505]

I think I've said this before, but that's easily the most depressing loss of the season.

How the holy **** do you give away a 16 point lead in the 4th quarter...and how the holy **** do you allow 36 points in the 4th quarter....unreal, totally ****ing nauseating.

Plus going to Al in the 4th was just death to this team. Why Sap wasn't given the ball more is a total mystery since he was dominating in the 3rd. Ugh.

 

[gregbroncs]

Still have not seen an answer from a single person on this board (including you) adequately explaining how Kanter and Favors should only get a combined total of 20 minutes. Your asking what Kanter did to earn them. He had a bad 8 minutes. So ****ing what. Jefferson had a horrible 35+ minutes. Kanter has shown the ability to play defense, box out, and fight for the ball. All things we needed down the stretch. Jefferson does none of those things. Besides being dominated for a good stretch by Pekovic AL also watched the game winner with no defensive effort and allowed the Wolves to get offensive rebounds at an alarming rate. Kanter at least would have boxed out and fought for those rebounds.

So I have given you an answer. Please try and give me an answer as to how Kanter and Favors only deserve 20 combined minutes? Ever. Forget last night they should be averaging a minimum of 15 ea. Preferrably 20. So what is your brilliant explaination for how Jefferson deserves nearly 30 more minutes than Kanter and 25 more than Favors. Especially on a night where Jefferson is obviously not into it. 18 points on 20 shots, from your C is pathetic.

Really the guy who should have been playing is Favors. In 1/3 the minutes he had 5points, 6 rebounds and 1 assist. Look at that in 22 less minutes he had the same # of assists despite not being the guy the ball goes to 90% of the time. He also had many more rebounds per minute than Jefferson. He also scored more points than he took shots and had 4 FT Attempts to Jeffersons 2. So Favors was better in every way to Jefferson. Defensively there is no comparison between the 2. Favors is better and it's not close.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

Should've expected a board nuclear meltdown, I felt similar last night. However while not surprising everybody blaming Ty and Al for the loss it takes a team to blow to blow a lead like that.
Yes Al could've played better D and on that last possession it's more on Hayward for doing whatever he wants to call that but he has some excuse as he's just a 2nd year player.
Also I'm sure Ty was telling the whole team hey don't move whatever you do don't ever move once the 4th qtr starts, quit cutting like you were for most of the game. He specifically mentioned it to Hayward saying hey remember when Al hit you on that layup with that base line cut in the first couple of minutes DON'T do that in the 4th qtr.
I'm sure Ty said hey Millsap don't get that rebound let Williams get it and then compound it by making a weak foul for an and one (even though the Jazz rarely if ever got that call all night let alone crunch time).

Jazz had this same problem with DWill a lot of nights only difference is DWill is good enough to get his own shot. For whatever reason the past few years the offense just gets stagnant and the players freeze/choke up in the 4th qtr.

I'm blaming the Jazz team for this loss but I do wonder if the Jazz get a few calls (that the refs were giving Minni) in the first half when they looked to dominate Minni (so much for the theory that the aggressive team gets the benefit) if the Jazz could've gotten the lead from 18 to 24-25pts if it would've caused Minni to give up. Not saying it would've the Toronto game at home is proof the Jazz can blow any lead. I'm just saying you can't honestly believe they didn't foul the Jazz the entire 1st qtr until Barea intentionally fouled Watson to make the Jazz inbound and reset with 5sec left in the 1st Qtr.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

Oh I also wanted the Ty to get Favors, Kanter and Burks more time (although he didn't do to bad with Burks) but Favors and Kanter on offense weren't playing very well. Millsap was able to run and get a few easy layups the young bigs should've at the very least been able to do that but they weren't. However midway through the third qtr I was hoping Ty would sub the bigs in early around the 5-6min mark to at least get them extra minutes. That is really the only way I see how they could've gotten more minutes then they did last night.

 

[Snowboy]

More experienced fans than me (i.e. all of you) may have been well aware of this little stat, so bear with me, but according to NBA.com that's the 32nd straight game the opponent of the Jazz has had more FT attempts than Utah has.

That's appalling, are we just giving away too many fouls, not forcing enough or both?

 

[northeast]

That's really an incredible stat, wow.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Without a doubt, worst loss of the season. This is the game that has pretty much made me lose almost all hope for our current core of guys. Hopefully Ty uses this time over the all-star break to think about rotations, and working on the Jazz offense. Couldn't have come at a better time

 

[chawx]

More experienced fans than me (i.e. all of you) may have been well aware of this little stat, so bear with me, but according to NBA.com that's the 32nd straight game the opponent of the Jazz has had more FT attempts than Utah has.

That's appalling, are we just giving away too many fouls, not forcing enough or both?

Not surprised at this at ALL! Yet we are at the tops of the league in scoring in the paint...... now bear with me... scoring in the paint = more defenders around you = you being aggressive = you SHOULD get more foul shots than them. So why are we NEVER getting more FTs than our opponents?? Because Refs let those fouls go 9 times out of 10.

Here's how our offense goes, pass to Al or Sap just outside of the paint. Al or Sap use their footwork and work their way into the paint and then shoot it. No assist is recorded and when/if they get hacked, the ref doesn't call it.

- I have no reason for this, other than to think it has something to do with how the game as changed since Shaq was playing. He was such a dominant force that guys could literally bear hug him the whole time he had the ball in the paint and he would STILL get off a shot that would go in on a 60% clip. There was no way to effectively ref games he was in because you were either going to let the teams beat the hell out of him and never send him to the line, or slow the game down to a snails pace while you blew whistle after whistle.

Anyway, Al, Sap, Favors, and Kanter are NOT Shaq, and the normal hack/bump is going to send them flying. I believe the refs had the discussion before the season that they weren't going to call those inside fouls on big men (that weren't superstar status) consistently, hence why we are shooting less FTs than our opponents.

In this league, in this era, for you to get to the FT line consistently, your wings need to drive hard to the hoop and go down hard (or atleast "look" like you're going down hard, ie. flop) and the whistle will get blown. CJ is a perfect example of this, when he was on his tear earlier he was driving to the hoop almost every time he got the ball, he would either convert for 2 or get the call to put him on the line almost every time. Why he stopped doing this? I don't know. But, either way, if this team is ever going to get to the FT line more than the other team, it's going to need more aggressive play from the wings, plain and simple.

 

[JJ Rage]

The foul disparity is not the fault of the refs. Too often I see refs taking blame.

The problem is twofold.

A) Corbin is playing Jerry Sloan basketball, which means physical play with a lot of fouls. This has been true of Jazz teams for years.

B) Big Al avoids contact in the paint like it was the plague. This has been a knock on him for a long time. He scores a lot of points but he shies away from contact and doesn't get to the line. When your offense runs through a guy that doesn't get fouled, this sort of FT disparity is bound to happen.

 

[northeast]

The Jazz don't get the calls msot other teams do. For a team that scores a high % of its points in the paint to shoot less foul shots 32 games in a row is incredible. It is historic. The Jazz have perimeter players that drive. They don't get the calls like their opponents when they do. The Jazz try backing off of people , and the refs still call a foul. The Jazz try being more aggressive, and the other team still gets the calls. It is amazing that the Jazz have won as many games as they have. The thread where some people called for the refs to lose their jobs and Stern got called the devil may have set the team up for some retribution , because that is when the Jazz started losing.

I don't mind so much, because I wouldn't mind the Jazz getting some more good picks this year, but to go out of your way to say that the refs have nothing to do with this is annoying.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

The foul disparity is not the fault of the refs. Too often I see refs taking blame.

The problem is twofold.

A) Corbin is playing Jerry Sloan basketball, which means physical play with a lot of fouls. This has been true of Jazz teams for years.

B) Big Al avoids contact in the paint like it was the plague. This has been a knock on him for a long time. He scores a lot of points but he shies away from contact and doesn't get to the line. When your offense runs through a guy that doesn't get fouled, this sort of FT disparity is bound to happen.

That's partly true Al shots and footwork make him avoid contact and get to the FT line less but the Spurs and a lot of the better defensive teams are as or more physical than the Jazz. Even last night Pekovic and Milicic are physical defenders (Love is as well if or when he actually played D) not sure if it is reputation or super star or combination of things.

Oh I also think some of it has to do with the Jazz being a bit soft or mentally weak because once they feel they're not getting the calls they seem to not go in as strong and in some cases resort to taking lots of jumpers.

 

[northeast]

The Jazz still take less jumpers than the other teams, even when you think they are taking lots of jumpers.