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"Surprised if Teague Doesn't End Up in Utah"

King Cy said:
Of course everyone has input, but the final decision is always the GM's.

Supposedly Hornaceck pushed for Kahwi Leonard, and DL didn't take him. So it's not like DL is just sitting around waiting for the people below him in the decision making process to decide for him. He decides, then he deflects pressure off himself by saying things like "oh this Ty's guy, he pushed for him".
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DL did help pick Kawhi when he was with the Spurs. He was the guy behind the scene making that trade with IND.


It was KOC who picked Burks.
 
fishonjazz said:
In the past for jazz draft picks it was always a collaboration when it came to picks. Jerry Sloan had an influence, koc/scott layden had an influence, Larry h Miller had an influence, and a few others as well.

Idk if it is still that way but there is a chance that DL liked trey a little and maybe liked someone else a little more but the coaches, owner, and other jazz management felt strongly that the jazz should pick trey burke if they could and DL went along with.

When it comes down to it DL's name gets stamped on every pick, trade, free agent pickup that occurs but that does not mean that he always goes with what he thinks is the best thing to do. There are probably times when he thinks plan A and plan B are both good plans but he favors plan A a little more than plan B yet still goes with plan B due to the influence of others involved in the decision making process.

The jazz are run like a democracy where everyone has a voice. It's not a monarchy like some other franchises
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This.
 
franklin said:
The Utah Jazz rebuild is Groundhogie day. Wait for the Big Al patch and then the rebuild. It will be super fun!
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I've given up on Utah building a championship contender. Now I'll settle for a solid playoffs team like the Dwill/Boozer era Jazz.
 
Siro said:
I've given up on Utah building a championship contender. Now I'll settle for a solid playoffs team like the Dwill/Boozer era Jazz.
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People gotta realize that winning a championship or being a contender is so hard. Even if you have too players like okc, doesn't mean you are close to a championship. There's nothing wrong with being competitive and losing in the second round.
 
Doublea said:
People gotta realize that winning a championship or being a contender is so hard. Even if you have too players like okc, doesn't mean you are close to a championship. There's nothing wrong with being competitive and losing in the second round.
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Thanks, Mr. Lindsey. And there's nothing wrong with me spending my money elsewhere. I can buy overpriced concessions at the movie theater - and not one owned by the Miller family. There's also nothing wrong with me buying a car from a non-Miller dealership to exercise my displeasure on the Jazz being the 3rd cheapest organization in the league.
 
fishonjazz said:
In the past for jazz draft picks it was always a collaboration when it came to picks. Jerry Sloan had an influence, koc/scott layden had an influence, Larry h Miller had an influence, and a few others as well.

Idk if it is still that way but there is a chance that DL liked trey a little and maybe liked someone else a little more but the coaches, owner, and other jazz management felt strongly that the jazz should pick trey burke if they could and DL went along with.

When it comes down to it DL's name gets stamped on every pick, trade, free agent pickup that occurs but that does not mean that he always goes with what he thinks is the best thing to do. There are probably times when he thinks plan A and plan B are both good plans but he favors plan A a little more than plan B yet still goes with plan B due to the influence of others involved in the decision making process.

The jazz are run like a democracy where everyone has a voice. It's not a monarchy like some other franchises
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That is absolutely the way both the Jazz and DL operate and DL confirmed this in numerous interviews. Anyone who listens to DL's interview during the Big Show on the Zone during draft times (which I did quite a bit) would also know this.


DL also said this is what they did when he was with the Spurs and it's why they've been so successful.
 
ONE LOVE said:
That is absolutely the way both the Jazz and DL operate and DL confirmed this in numerous interviews. Anyone who listens to DL's interview during the Big Show on the Zone during draft times (which I did quite a bit) would also know this.


DL also said this is what they did when he was with the Spurs and it's why they've been so successful.
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You don't think EVERY team in the league listens to the "voices" of their scouts, coaches, advisors, management, etc. when they sit down and draw up their draft board? The main thing Dennis said they changed (other than the overkill on pre-draft workouts) is giving a FULL DAY to the international team to talk about non-US prospects. He said in the past it was just a few hours.

I will say Utah (and SA) undoubtedly had more input/power given to the head coach (Sloan/Popovich) than some other teams. But great coaches earn that right, just like Van Gundy and several others currently. Sure, Corbin had some input. But it's ultimately the GM who makes the call. The only reason I can think of for Lindsey making that statement was to undermine Ty. He didn't like Corbin and set him up to be fired: 1) putting Trey's selection on Ty; 2) giving him no bench; 3) telling Ty he would be judged on defensive performance when he knew Kanter was the worst defender at his position in the league.

Didn't a similar thing happen with DWill: Sloan was rumored to have favored Deron while KOC wanted CP3?
 
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Stifle Tower said:
You don't think EVERY team in the league listens to the "voices" of their scouts, coaches, advisors, management, etc. when they sit down and draw up their draft board?
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No. Not to the extent the jazz do.
 
Stifle Tower said:
You don't think EVERY team in the league listens to the "voices" of their scouts, coaches, advisors, management, etc. when they sit down and draw up their draft board? The main thing Dennis said they changed (other than the overkill on pre-draft workouts) is giving a FULL DAY to the international team to talk about non-US prospects. He said in the past it was just a few hours.
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I don't know how other teams operate because I don't follow them and don't listen to other GM's interviews, I can only speak to what I hear DL said and what he said was that it's a very collaborative process where everyone has a say and a decision is reached together.


Like Fish said I too also think there are players DL may have liked a little more than Burke but as we all know there was a gaping hole at the PG position at the time and Ty needed his PG. I don't claim to know everything that went on in the war room that day but this is my take based on the pieces of info we have.
 
I think it was less of a DL decision to draft Burke, than it was with more recent picks. It wasnt even clear just how much power DL had when he came in. He was a "Co-GM") according to KOC. I still don't think til this day, that they announced its all DL. It just appears that way now. But that horrible GM KOC could be pulling strings still. What does KOC even do if he isn't involved? The team still feels like it's a KOC ran team.
 
Hack said:
I think it was less of a DL decision to draft Burke, than it was with more recent picks. It wasnt even clear just how much power DL had when he came in. He was a "Co-GM") according to KOC. I still don't think til this day, that they announced its all DL. It just appears that way now. But that horrible GM KOC could be pulling strings still. What does KOC even do if he isn't involved? The team still feels like it's a KOC ran team.
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Yes, this.
 
fishonjazz said:
No. Not to the extent the jazz do.
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Of course they do. If they didn't, those teams wouldn't have scouting staffs. Some teams give even more personnel control to their head coach (SVG is an example). Sloan had that much power. But I GUARANTEE you Corbin did not. And some teams have foolish owners who wield too much power in terms of personnel decisions. Larry H. vetoed a couple of AK trades that would have gotten rid of his contract and brought back assets. But even Sloan wasn't mightier than KOC/Greggy when they wouldn't allow him to discipline Deron.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Of course they do. If they didn't, those teams wouldn't have scouting staffs. Some teams give even more personnel control to their head coach (SVG is an example). Sloan had that much power. But I GUARANTEE you Corbin did not. And some teams have foolish owners who wield too much power in terms of personnel decisions. Larry H. vetoed a couple of AK trades that would have gotten rid of his contract and brought back assets. But even Sloan wasn't mightier than KOC/Greggy when they wouldn't allow him to discipline Deron.
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You asked for my opinion and I gave it.
 
Hack said:
I think it was less of a DL decision to draft Burke, than it was with more recent picks. It wasnt even clear just how much power DL had when he came in. He was a "Co-GM") according to KOC. I still don't think til this day, that they announced its all DL. It just appears that way now. But that horrible GM KOC could be pulling strings still. What does KOC even do if he isn't involved? The team still feels like it's a KOC ran team.
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Horrible GM, KOC?
You mean the one who took over after the Jazz had their three great players retire (or in Malone's case, walk away for nothing), inherited the bones of a franchise and quickly put together a roster that finished at .500, despite pundits saying it could be the worst EVER in the league, The GM who spotted great talent in Boozer and Okur and lured them to Utah, who through drafts, trades AND free agency, built a perennial playoff squad which reached the WC Finals. Pretty sure KOC Is responsible for the backbone of this team: Favors, Hayward and Burks,

Sure, he made some mistakes. Getting Big Al was an attempt to appease DWill and keep the team competitive. It was a good risk: a 20/10 player coming back from injury, Mo the 2nd was a mistake. Should have taken Valanciunas or Knight over Kanter. But let's also remember him deftly working the trade with Portland to get DWill after Utah got screwed in the lottery drawing. Otherwise, Utah would have been left with Felton as their PG.

His mandate from the Millers was to build playoff teams. And Corbin taking over from Sloan was ALWAYS going to happen under the Millers ownership. I fault no one for that. Ty was widely respected around the league as an assistant. His loyalty was going to get rewarded.
 
It's still unclear whether the "retool" strategy of KOC Is worse than the "rebuild" of DL. Pretty much depends on Exum at this point, Jazz could have very easily retained DMC, Millsap and maybe Foye instead of DL making the trade for Beidrins, Rush and Jefferson. Certainly, Millsap would have returned for more money than what Atlanta gave him (2 yrs/$16M, IIRC). Jazz probably would have made the playoffs instead of getting the #5 pick. Who knows who they would have taken in the mid-teens instead of getting Exum. Also don't get the pick that became Hood (but KOC retains DMC so a wash). Also guarantee Jazz acquire a veteran PG instead of relying on Burke to lead them into the playoffs. Lot of ifs, but I think the Jazz are a playoff team in the 4-6 range with Millsap, Favors, Gobert, Hayward, DeMarre and a free agent PG.

If Exum becomes a star, then DL's rebuild is better. If not, Utah gave up Millsap and DMC to rebuild and "not skip steps." Right now, that's looking like foolishness, You can develop young players and STILL be a playoff team, Kawhi has become a star. So has Draymond Green. Hayward was integrated into a playoff-caliber team.

Lindsey's strategy was to puprposely give the team a ****ty bench and lose a lot (a GM "tank") in order to get higher draft picks, Worked for Portland in getting Lillard. But thus far, DL's gambit has netted Utah Exum and Lyles and Hood (with the trade). Not sure Exum and Lyles are going to be the next Durant and Westbrook, As many have pointed out, Jazz were never bad enough to do a complete tank and get two top-5 picks. And that, right there, might be the very definition of "skipping steps."
 
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Hack said:
I still don't think til this day, that they announced its all DL. It just appears that way now. But that horrible GM KOC could be pulling strings still. What does KOC even do if he isn't involved? The team still feels like it's a KOC ran team.
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I completely disagree.
 
I would also like to add that when the trade and then drafting of trey burke took place it was almost unanimously loved by fans and media.
DL said that corbin was the one who really really wanted burke. So DL gave the credit to corbin when everyone loved the decision to move up and draft trey. So it was not a "scapegoat, throw corbin under the bus" move. Quite the opposite actually. He was giving corbin credit.

It's only after we saw that trey burke was not very good that DL saying corbin really wanted burke looked like a scapegoat move
 
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