Terror Attack in France, 84 Dead, 50 injured (so far)

[♪alt13]

I want this to end now.

ISIS to my knowledge hasnt claimed responsibility. Which is weird, since they usually do so pretty soon after.

If it's ISIS then I think the UN needs to call an emergency meeting and organize real attacks to gut ISIS. Go into Syria and Iraq and gut this organization. Brutally.

If that means we reinstate the draft then let's do it.

No

I don't think that's the answer at all. Let's not make Arabs the enemy eh? What is killing a few hundred thousand more Arabs going to solve? What is sacrificing thousands more Americans going to solve?

This is an ideological battle between the enlightenment and the bronze age. We can't win it with barbarism(etymologically unfortunate).

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

The most beautiful woman I ever saw in my life was on that beach in Nice, topless. We had a nice conversation. It was so challenging keeping my eyes on hers. I will never forget her.

This is a heartbreaking tragedy. It bothers me how some posters are choosing to behave in this thread. The main one I'm finding myself in agreement with is Thriller... which is weird for me. Maybe it means there's hope for a unified response and solution to this terrible scourge. Radical Islamic terrorism must be defeated. We need to take action now. Do any influential Muslims or even leaders of Arab countries agree? I sure hope so.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Newt says that we need to background check every Muslim (or anyone with a Muslim background) in this country, shut down all ISIS websites, and charge anyone who enters a terrorist website with a felony.

Ummmm... Yeah.

To hell with the constitution.

I don't think any of those illegal measures will do much.

We need to kill ISIS physically and financially and coordinate better with moderate Muslims to contain radical Islam.

This is the most weird post I have EVER seen on this site. Seriously.
- do not background check Muslims - that's against the constitution.
- do not shutdown Muslim websites - that's against the constitution.
- do not make it a felony to follow existing Muslim websites - that's against the constitution.

Instead, kill them.

Wonderful logic there bru.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

No

I don't think that's the answer at all. Let's not make Arabs the enemy eh? What is killing a few hundred thousand more Arabs going to solve? What is sacrificing thousands more Americans going to solve?

This is an ideological battle between the enlightenment and the bronze age. We can't win it with barbarism(etymologically unfortunate).

Killing hundreds of thousands is not what we need. It's time to declare war against our enemy. We've got to make a unified statement with all of the Western world and as many other countries as will participate and speak out against terrorism. We need Arab countries to stand with us on this. We've got to team with technology companies to cripple their communication system. We've got to kill their leaders with precision strikes. We've got to completely eliminate ISIS landholds. We have to prevent them from holding training camps. We must stop the money flow. No mpre pansy politically correct fear of stating exactly who this enemy is: Radical Islamic Terrorism. That should not be offensive to peaceful Muslims. If it is then we've got an enormous problem.

 

[The Midnight]

So, apparently the attacker also 'shot into the crowd' as well as driving into the crowd...


I was thinking, how can a truck kill 80 people just driving into the crowd, but apparently the driver was also shooting out the window as he drove.

 

[The Midnight]

Also death toll now up to 84 ...

 

[Siro]

Newt says that we need to background check every Muslim (or anyone with a Muslim background) in this country, shut down all ISIS websites, and charge anyone who enters a terrorist website with a felony.

Ummmm... Yeah.

To hell with the constitution.

I don't think any of those illegal measures will do much.

We need to kill ISIS physically and financially and coordinate better with moderate Muslims to contain radical Islam.

That's what created the problem in the first place. What we need is to do THE OPPOSITE. Complete military withdrawal from the Middle East. Ban on military sales for the countries spreading this cancerous ideology, like Saudi Arabia. And extending aid that comes with strings attached (reform and liberalization) as opposed to the current policy of supporting whichever dictator is most U.S. friendly (until we decide it's time to take them out).

 

[Dr. Jones]

That's what created the problem in the first place. What we need is to do THE OPPOSITE. Complete military withdrawal from the Middle East. Ban on military sales for the countries spreading this cancerous ideology, like Saudi Arabia. And extending aid that comes with strings attached (reform and liberalization) as opposed to the current policy of supporting whichever dictator is most U.S. friendly (until we decide it's time to take them out).

In other words, build a wall..

I kid.

 

[♪alt13]

Killing hundreds of thousands is not what we need. It's time to declare war against our enemy. We've got to make a unified statement with all of the Western world and as many other countries as will participate and speak out against terrorism. We need Arab countries to stand with us on this. We've got to team with technology companies to cripple their communication system. We've got to kill their leaders with precision strikes. We've got to completely eliminate ISIS landholds. We have to prevent them from holding training camps. We must stop the money flow. No mpre pansy politically correct fear of stating exactly who this enemy is: Radical Islamic Terrorism. That should not be offensive to peaceful Muslims. If it is then we've got an enormous problem.

This really is a silly hang up. Srsly I've heard that phrase like every day for the last decade. I don't think saying it more often is gunna change anything.

I think we need to stop playing the short game. Our foreign policy is focused on stability. We invest hundreds of billions of dollars every year in fundamentally backwards regimes for the sake of stability. For all of that we have gotten(surprise) a fundamentally backwards region. That money would be better spent investing in our values. If we want to see human rights in the middle east let's stop investing in those that violate it and start investing in those that uphold it.

 

[The Thriller]

No

I don't think that's the answer at all. Let's not make Arabs the enemy eh? What is killing a few hundred thousand more Arabs going to solve? What is sacrificing thousands more Americans going to solve?

This is an ideological battle between the enlightenment and the bronze age. We can't win it with barbarism(etymologically unfortunate).

I agree that this isn't a traditional war.

But that doesn't mean that law enforcement and military shouldn't be involved.

Shortly before this latest surge in Isis, Assad released a bunch of radicals from his prisons which have given ISIS a boost (but has taken the attention away from his brutal actions against rebels.) this can't happen anymore.

The Shia controlled Iraqi government continues to snub Sunnis. This only freeds Isis as desperate Sunnis turn to terrorism for money. It's time to bring some serious pressure on iraq's governments and clerics to change this.

It has long been rumored that rich Sunni Saudi families are helping to finance Isis. If this is true those families need to be brought to justice.

A united international military force and intelligence should fight to get Isis out of populated and oil rich areas. Reform needs to be brought to these governments. Let's ask moderate Arab counties, like Jordan how they believe we should go forward. They've had a long history combating radicals and yet western powers have seemingly ignored their advice (they strongly advised bush against invading Iraq).

Lastly, I think we need a renewed effort to tone down israel's bullying and get Palestinians their own country. I think western powers making headway to resolve that issue would go a long way to pacifying a Middle East in chaos.

How much better off would we have been had we spent $2 trillion building up nasty refuge camps that Palestinians try and live in along the West Bank and Gaza Strip rather than in Iraq?

 

[Dr. Jones]

I agree that this isn't a traditional war.

But that doesn't mean that law enforcement and military shouldn't be involved.

Shortly before this latest surge in Isis, Assad released a bunch of radicals from his prisons which have given ISIS a boost (but has taken the attention away from his brutal actions against rebels.) this can't happen anymore.

The Shia controlled Iraqi government continues to snub Sunnis. This only freeds Isis as desperate Sunnis turn to terrorism for money. It's time to bring some serious pressure on iraq's governments and clerics to change this.

It has long been rumored that rich Sunni Saudi families are helping to finance Isis. If this is true those families need to be brought to justice.

A united international military force and intelligence should fight to get Isis out of populated and oil rich areas. Reform needs to be brought to these governments. Let's ask moderate Arab counties, like Jordan how they believe we should go forward. They've had a long history combating radicals and yet western powers have seemingly ignored their advice (they strongly advised bush against invading Iraq).

Lastly, I think we need a renewed effort to tone down israel's bullying and get Palestinians their own country. I think western powers making headway to resolve that issue would go a long way to pacifying a Middle East in chaos.

How much better off would we have been had we spent $2 trillion building up nasty refuge camps that Palestinians try and live in along the West Bank and Gaza Strip rather than in Iraq?

How does Israel go about helping Palestinians get their own country?

 

[The Thriller]

That's what created the problem in the first place. What we need is to do THE OPPOSITE. Complete military withdrawal from the Middle East. Ban on military sales for the countries spreading this cancerous ideology, like Saudi Arabia. And extending aid that comes with strings attached (reform and liberalization) as opposed to the current policy of supporting whichever dictator is most U.S. friendly (until we decide it's time to take them out).

Several me countries, oil companies, and European countries would never agree to us pulling out.

The Middle East still serves as a key trading route from Europe to Asia, Israel depends on American support, and half a dozen muslim countries would be left high and dry (Kuwait, Jordan, etc). Oh and also the oil

 

[♪alt13]

I agree that this isn't a traditional war.

But that doesn't mean that law enforcement and military shouldn't be involved.

Shortly before this latest surge in Isis, Assad released a bunch of radicals from his prisons which have given ISIS a boost (but has taken the attention away from his brutal actions against rebels.) this can't happen anymore.

The Shia controlled Iraqi government continues to snub Sunnis. This only freeds Isis as desperate Sunnis turn to terrorism for money. It's time to bring some serious pressure on iraq's governments and clerics to change this.

It has long been rumored that rich Sunni Saudi families are helping to finance Isis. If this is true those families need to be brought to justice.

A united international military force and intelligence should fight to get Isis out of populated and oil rich areas. Reform needs to be brought to these governments. Let's ask moderate Arab counties, like Jordan how they believe we should go forward. They've had a long history combating radicals and yet western powers have seemingly ignored their advice (they strongly advised bush against invading Iraq).

Lastly, I think we need a renewed effort to tone down israel's bullying and get Palestinians their own country. I think western powers making headway to resolve that issue would go a long way to pacifying a Middle East in chaos.

Why should we do it again? I don't get it. Do you think we just didn't try hard enough the first time? Are you that blinded by partisan politics to think that Clinton's Iraq war is going to go any better than Bush's did?

 

[The Thriller]

How does Israel go about helping Palestinians get their own country?

Israel needs to tone down its rhetoric. Over the past decade over Netanyahu, they've taken a hard right approach to diplomacy. All that's done is kill more Israelis and make Palestinians more desperate.

They need to stop subsidizing settlers along the golan heights, West Bank, and Gaza.

Hell, they should try and negotiate for a 1947 type agreement and give up Jerusalem to the UN as originally agreed to. Give a little but gain a lot.

Palestinians might be desperate enough to agree to it now.

I do know that Israel has been awful towards Palestinians especially over the past decade. Their refugee camps are cesspools while Israelis and building incredible condos in these Palestinian areas

It's difficult to say "all we want is peace" to Palestinians when you're subsidizing huge hotels and condos and building walls surrounding cesspool refugee camps. Somehow, I don't think that conveys the message to Palestinians that you truly want peace.

 

[The Thriller]

Why wouldn't Palestinians turn to violence? Israel isn't exactly making a strong case for peace. Right?

View attachment 4871

 

[The Thriller]

Why should we do it again? I don't get it. Do you think we just didn't try hard enough the first time? Are you that blinded by partisan politics to think that Clinton's Iraq war is going to go any better than Bush's did?

This would be a surgical strike(s) in the western part of Iraq. More like a Bill Clinton Saddam plan than the full on invasion that Dubya did.

 

[Siro]

Several me countries, oil companies, and European countries would never agree to us pulling out.

The Middle East still serves as a key trading route from Europe to Asia, Israel depends on American support, and half a dozen muslim countries would be left high and dry (Kuwait, Jordan, etc). Oh and also the oil

How does Israel depend on US support? They do get US support, unconditionally, because of the power of their lobby. And I never said anything about Israel anyway. I feel that the US-Israel relationship, while morally questionable and counterproductive, plays a minor role in this debacle.

Some Muslim countries, like Jordan, Lebanon, Tunisia, and a couple of others would still receive US aid as long as continue on the path to liberalization. Countries like Saudi Arabia would be faced with tough choices though, which would be a good thing.

Also, I know none of this will happen any time soon. If anything, the US will continue to make decisions that justify the existence of its 500b+ military budget, and the terrorism problem will continue to get worse.

 

[The Thriller]

Dr Jones, long winded, I know:

1. Give up Jerusalem. Make it a UN controlled city used for international purposes.
2. Give up significant parts of the west bank and Gaza.
3. Invest heavily in decent housing for Palestinians to pacify them.

 

[♪alt13]

Israel needs to tone down its rhetoric. Over the past decade over Netanyahu, they've taken a hard right approach to diplomacy. All that's done is kill more Israelis and make Palestinians more desperate.

They need to stop subsidizing settlers along the golan heights, West Bank, and Gaza.

Hell, they should try and negotiate for a 1947 type agreement and give up Jerusalem to the UN as originally agreed to. Give a little but gain a lot.

Palestinians might be desperate enough to agree to it now.

I do know that Israel has been awful towards Palestinians especially over the past decade. Their refugee camps are cesspools while Israelis and building incredible condos in these Palestinian areas

It's difficult to say "all we want is peace" to Palestinians when you're subsidizing huge hotels and condos and building walls surrounding cesspool refugee camps. Somehow, I don't think that conveys the message to Palestinians that you truly want peace.

So the Israeli's should turn the other cheek but Americans should muster an invasion force? smh

 

[Dr. Jones]

Israel needs to tone down its rhetoric. Over the past decade over Netanyahu, they've taken a hard right approach to diplomacy. All that's done is kill more Israelis and make Palestinians more desperate.

They need to stop subsidizing settlers along the golan heights, West Bank, and Gaza.

Hell, they should try and negotiate for a 1947 type agreement and give up Jerusalem to the UN as originally agreed to. Give a little but gain a lot.

Palestinians might be desperate enough to agree to it now.

I do know that Israel has been awful towards Palestinians especially over the past decade. Their refugee camps are cesspools while Israelis and building incredible condos in these Palestinian areas

It's difficult to say "all we want is peace" to Palestinians when you're subsidizing huge hotels and condos and building walls surrounding cesspool refugee camps. Somehow, I don't think that conveys the message to Palestinians that you truly want peace.

I don't blame Israel for not giving up what you're suggesting.
Golan Heights is way too strategic for defense... I'm being lazy so will stop there, but they would be plain stupid to give up their key areas of defense when everyone in the region has been against them for a millennia. Having said that, the rhetoric could certainly take a major nosedive and just stfu.