The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

[Bucknutz]

In Trump's case, the crime is obstruction.

Agreed, in addition to mishandling

 

[One Brow]

You'd call an educator, a person who has put so much effort into being around other people's children that it is their profession.

The numbers seem pretty small considering there are over 300K kids in the system.

https://cpsoig.org/uploads/3/5/5/6/35562484/cps_oig_fy_2022_annual_report.pdf

The SAU was, and remains, the only independent investigative body in the nation with jurisdiction over a broad range of sexual misconduct complaints and related allegations involving K–12 school-based staff and students.

Good thing that swim coaches don't suffer the same scrutiny, right?

 

[One Brow]

Agreed, in addition to mishandling

How many people have been prosecuted for just mishandling? I've never heard of that.

 

[Bucknutz]

Besides, isn't this par for the course since RWers like yourself have been calling Biden senile and incompetent since before he even took the WH?

Show me when I did this? Please provide my post. I have not been calling Biden anything close to this. I have pointed out the Republicans like to do this.

My official opinion on Biden is: He is the Lee Corso of politics; he made it to the top, had a great career, has a great legacy, but it's about time they both retire.

Again not, Right Wing. Im right of you but almost everyone is. Just because you keep saying it will not make it true. I take shots at the left and right. I agree with the left and right. Some topics I'm more right and other topics I'm more left. Its okay to have your own opinion and not just repeat talking points from a party. It's very liberating.

 

[One Brow]

What about, what about, what about. All these topics have been thoroughly discussed. Just more deflecting.

You're talking to the (fuzzy) mirror image of of Al-O-Meter. What did you expect?

 

[Bucknutz]

How many people have been prosecuted for just mishandling? I've never heard of that.

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

www.law.cornell.edu

David Petraeus is the most famous case.

Sandy Berger

John Deutch

 

[Bucknutz]

You're talking to the (fuzzy) mirror image of of Al-O-Meter. What did you expect?

I personally like both posters. They bring in information that I haven't read or looked up before.

 

[One Brow]

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

www.law.cornell.edu

David Petraeus is the most famous case.

Petraeus Sentenced To 2 Years' Probation, Fine For Sharing Classified Info

Under the terms of a plea deal, the former CIA director will avoid jail time. Petraeus, 62, admits having retained notebooks full of classified information and showing them to his biographer.

www.npr.org

He shared the information.

Sandy Berger

Sandy Berger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lied to investigators.

John Deutch

CIA Chief Testifies in Deutch Probe

WASHINGTON (AP) _ Former CIA Director John Deutch's storing of national security secrets on a home computer was a serious lapse in security but not comparable to allegations against a former Los Alamos scientist, CIA Director George Tenet insisted today.

apnews.com

Not prosecuted for anything.

 

[Bucknutz]

Petraeus Sentenced To 2 Years' Probation, Fine For Sharing Classified Info

Under the terms of a plea deal, the former CIA director will avoid jail time. Petraeus, 62, admits having retained notebooks full of classified information and showing them to his biographer.

www.npr.org

He shared the information.

Petraeus, in the end, pleaded guilty last year to a misdemeanor charge of mishandling classified material.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/how-david-petraeus-avoided-felony-charges-and-possible-prison-time/2016/01/25/d77628dc-bfab-11e5-83d4-42e3bceea902_story.html

Sandy Berger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lied to investigators.

From your own link...In April 2005, Berger pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material from the National Archives in Washington, D.C.[23]

CIA Chief Testifies in Deutch Probe

WASHINGTON (AP) _ Former CIA Director John Deutch's storing of national security secrets on a home computer was a serious lapse in security but not comparable to allegations against a former Los Alamos scientist, CIA Director George Tenet insisted today.

apnews.com

Not prosecuted for anything.

John M. Deutch agreed in writing to plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge for keeping classified information on his home computers, according to authorities and documents.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/01/24/deutch-had-signed-pleaagreement-sources-say/dcebcd40-24d5-47e9-8c3c-6fe2c3c3c8a0/

One Brow... be honest here... all of them were mishandling classified information and were caught and were charged for that reason.

What about this guy...

Sailor Gets Prison in Classified-Data Case

A chief petty officer at the Navy's Point Loma submarine base was sentenced Tuesday to four years and one month in prison for mishandling classified materials while he was photography chief on the La Jolla, a nuclear submarine based in San Diego.

www.latimes.com

What about this guy...

US Navy sailor jailed for taking photos of classified areas of nuclear submarine

Kristian Saucier pleaded guilty in May to ‘foolish mistake’ of unauthorized detention of defense information

www.theguardian.com

I bet they both wish they were in the ruling class.

 

[The Thriller]

What about, what about, what about. All these topics have been thoroughly discussed. Just more deflecting.

This was my point from the start. But taking classified documents is not a mistake. You know what you are doing.


Yes, it’s still a crime even though they will probably not do anything about it.

What logic did I use? I said the POTUS has the ability to declassify information and the VP can’t. You’re trying to make hollow and ignorant comparison which doesn’t do anything for this conversation. You complain about sincerity of the other person debating and you do exactly what you complain about.


My response from the mid terms. Not disappointed or embarrassed. I was actually excited:
I thought it was a great night. It looks like and I hope congress is split. If the Republicans take the house by a small margin, then hopefully they would realize it would be political suicide to have revenge hearings towards people on the left. It would also create the right to have a small voice and can have a little push back.
If they start on the pointless hearings then they deserve to loose in the next election.
I’m happy Oz and Boebert lost. It shows that people will vote out the fringe. I’m pumped that DeSantis is still my Governor. Just a good overall night.
Obviously, we found out later that Boebert ended up winning. So I wasn’t happy about that.

Can’t stop yourself from putting a “racist” comment in your post.

Again not upset, I have already stated that I don’t care about it. I have also stated I don’t believe anything will happen to Biden. The post was pointed to the hypocrisy in Politics.

Still, my question to you, which you keep avoiding, is why is so hard for you to bash someone on your political side?

It's so funny to hear that I don't bash my own political side when two years ago I was attacked for not being progressive enough.

This is a nothingburger. Sure, were there mistakes made? Obviously. But I'm not stressing over it. And it's hilarious seeing RWers, like you, trying to make a big deal over it after 6 years of excusing Trump on a daily basis for worse.

Again, I've been told over the past 6 years that anything can be excused as long as your side gets the judges it wants. Is that not accurate?

 

[One Brow]

One Brow... be honest here... all of them were mishandling classified information and were caught and were charged for that reason.

My question was, "How many people have been prosecuted for just mishandling?" The words "prosecuted" and "just" were not accidental. All of your examples had additional efforts/sharing/etc. beyond simple mishandling.

If you have evidence Biden did more than mishandle, that would acceptable for claiming a double-standard. If you had another case of mishandling being the sole reason for prosecution, that would also be acceptable.

What about this guy...

"... dereliction of duty, destruction of Navy property to prevent seizure, larceny of Navy property, willfully retaining classified material, directing and soliciting his wife to destroy classified material and wrongfully retaining it in their residence...".

What about this guy...

"Saucier took the photos knowing they were classified, but did so only to be able to show his family and future children what he did while he was in the Navy, his lawyers said. ... Saucier destroyed key evidence including his laptop computer, a camera and a memory card after an interview with the FBI in 2012."

I bet they both wish they were in the ruling class.

I agree they would have gotten off easier if they were, but both did more than mishandle documents.

 

[fishonjazz]

Oh no, another politician who mishandled classified documents.

Classified documents from Biden’s time as VP discovered in private office, source says | CNN Politics

Attorney General Merrick Garland has asked the US attorney in Chicago to investigate the matter, a source familiar with the matter tells CNN.

amp.cnn.com

“The classified materials included some top-secret files with the "sensitive compartmented information" designation, also known as SCI, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources.”

“Biden's team cooperated with NARA, which later came to view the situation as a mistake due to lack of safeguards for documents, the source said.”

My favorite quote:
"How that could possibly happen? How one -- anyone could be that irresponsible?" Biden said. "And I thought what data was in there that may compromise sources and methods? By that I mean names of people who helped or, et cetera. ... totally irresponsible."



A secure office building or a secure residence… I don’t see a difference. I see the difference here being that Biden “cooperated”.

Not going to speculate on what was in the classified documents like the left did with Trump. Seems like mishandling documents happens more often then we realize.

You do realize that mishandling and intentionally taking are two different things right? Also that returning them promptly and trying to keep are two different things right? Also there definitely is a difference between a secure office building and mara lago where they werent even locked up for a long time and just about anyone had access to them.
You cant both sides this thing no matter how much you want to

 

[fishonjazz]

No, I presented it. You also forgot to add it could be political as well, you know midterms…

Why would this affect the midterms? Biden wasn't running for any office.

 

[fishonjazz]

This is what a national security expert has to say about it: https://www.yahoo.com/news/theres-key-difference-between-classified-004201530.html
"The reason Donald Trump is in criminal jeopardy right now isn't just because of the documents being improperly stored. It was the obstruction," Moss said. "That is why it has gotten to the point it has, where we're looking at the real possibility of a criminal indictment."

 

[fishonjazz]

The difference is Biden didn't have to be subpoenaed to return them to the National Archives. He stepped up and contacted them. He didn't claim they were "his". He didn't lie about them. He didn't stash them in his house. They were in a government office.

 

[fishonjazz]

One thing to remember is that the documents in question NEVER left a controlled entry government office building. They were kept in a locked closet and probably forgotten. Trump illegally removed the highest security documents from a controlled environment and placed them in an unsecure location with zero control or security, then continually lied about them, and when his lies were dispelled, he refused to give them back. We STILL have no reason for why he took them to begin with.

 

[fishonjazz]

Also there were 10 documents misplaced. Trump took hundreds. There are so many differences between the two situations that comparisons are laughable.

 

[Bucknutz]

You do realize that mishandling and intentionally taking are two different things right?

How do you know the intent of each person… Biden, Trump, Hillary, Berger, Deutch ect. Berger literally stuffed documents in his clothes and walked out. Biden has had the documents for 6 years. Why did he take them? What was his intent. I don’t know, I’m not going to speculate. Same with Trump, I don’t know and I’m not going to speculate.

Also that returning them promptly and trying to keep are two different things right?

Yes, I stated this reason multiple times already, including my initial post. Except the word promptly, I don’t think you can use that with keeping documents for 72 months.

Also there definitely is a difference between a secure office building and mara lago where they werent even locked up for a long time and just about anyone had access to them.

You don’t think the private residence, protected by federal agents, of a former President is secure. It’s not like it’s an average person’s house. On a gated and guarded property. Where were Biden’s? In a federal approved locatio? In a Safe? Biden didn’t turn the documents in, his lawyers did. Doesn’t sound like they were that restricted.

You cant both sides this thing no matter how much you want to

So tell me what’s worse, Hillary’s home server with classified information, when she was actively working for the government. She has no declassification power. Then got caught and tried to scrub the servers clean. A former president who took classified hard copies with him home. Which he can declassify before hand which none of us know if he did it or not. Then didn’t follow the rules and obstructed. Then you have a current POTUS, that took with him classified documents and didn’t report it to anyone. He also did not have declassification powers at the time. His lawyers found them and they followed the rules.

If you can’t see that it is both sides that mishandled classified information, in different ways, I can’t help you. You absolutely can both sides this.

 

[Bucknutz]

Also there were 10 documents misplaced. Trump took hundreds. There are so many differences between the two situations that comparisons are laughable.

A sailor took a few photos of a submarine, for personal use, no intent to give or sell it; got removed from the Navy, went to prison ,probation and fines. Why is that so different than a person taking 10 classified files without telling anyone and just brush it off because he plays for your team?

 

[Bucknutz]

My question was, "How many people have been prosecuted for just mishandling?" The words "prosecuted" and "just" were not accidental. All of your examples had additional efforts/sharing/etc. beyond simple mishandling.

They all plead guilty to mishandling information. It literally says it on each of the links. You want to expand it to fit your narrative.

If you have evidence Biden did more than mishandle, that would acceptable for claiming a double-standard. If you had another case of mishandling being the sole reason for prosecution, that would also be acceptable.

I didn’t think I needed to state the same thing for everyone on the left here… Thriller, Fish, One brow, Gandalf. I just need Log and Red to ask the same question.
For all the people in the back…
From my initial post, the difference between the two situations is that Bidens lawyers cooperated.

Do I have to answer that again????
I will, in case you don’t read my posts.

My point is they both mishandled classified information. When they got caught with it, one followed the rules and the other did not.

I agree they would have gotten off easier if they were, but both did more than mishandle documents.

Did Hillary do more than mishandle classified information? What was her punishment?