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framer said:
People: Hey, I just need to get to work to feed my family and I have nothing to do with whatever your issue is.
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The driver of the truck was working for ICE. That's a pretty direct connection to the protesters' issue.
 
One Brow said:
Someone threatens to shoot you and then does it, and it's your fault? Does that also apply to fists? As long as they threaten you first, it's your fault for getting hit?
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No, if someone is shooting into a general area, you as an adult know that, and you go out of your way to be in that area, its on you if you get shot.
 
Beer said:
No, if someone is shooting into a general area, you as an adult know that, and you go out of your way to be in that area, its on you if you get shot.
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I'd like to test this theory. Let's work out a time for you to bring your six shooter to the Harmon's parking lot @ city creek. Maybe before a jazz game. I'll stand in the parking lot. You tell me you're going to shoot. I won't move. Let's see if you get arrested.
 
A couple of things to point out. The driver was not an employee of ICE. He was a correctional officer at the Wyatt Detention Center.

The protestors were not blocking the road at all. They were standing, and sitting, at the entrance to the parking lot for the Wyatt center.

I posted the update just for the sake of informing anyone who had discussed the incident at the time, what the judicial resolution was.

However, it may be worth viewing what I think is the best video of the incident, since it better shows the complete setting prior to the arrival of the truck. That more complete video can be viewed here:

https://www.providencejournal.com/n...ters-64-year-old-warren-man-seriously-injured

From my perspective, what the driver did was wrong. I imagine it can be argued that the protestors had no right to be sitting in the entrance to the employee parking lot. But, if you can watch the video, and state that this was the correct response on the driver's part, well, we part company there I guess. I simply would not have been able to step on the accelerator with all those people in front of my vehicle. Now, I think protestors pounding on his hood did not help, but the people are people, I can't justify just driving right into them.

Also, one of the injuries was not, as was suggested by one poster, just someone faking injury just to go to a hospital:

"Protest organizers said a 64-year-old man suffered a broken leg, internal bleeding and possibly a back injury. Amy Anthony, spokeswoman for Never Again Action, identified the man as Jerry Belair, of Warren, RI."
 
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One Brow said:
We do?



Is that supposed to be something we disagree on? I'm assuming you are referring to situations where sidewalks are available, of course. If there is no sidewalk, where should people walk? Perhaps we disagree on that.
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Well in this context there is a specific incident.
I don't think the protesters were forced to be in the road in front of the vehicle.
Imo they could have and should have moved. I have common since not to stand in front of a vehicle and antagonize the driver and then stay in front of the vehicle when it begins moving toward me.

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Harambe said:
I'd like to test this theory. Let's work out a time for you to bring your six shooter to the Harmon's parking lot @ city creek. Maybe before a jazz game. I'll stand in the parking lot. You tell me you're going to shoot. I won't move. Let's see if you get arrested.
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You should do at a shooting range instead. A place where guns are supposed to be shot.

Shooting a gun at City Creek would get a person arrested even if the bullet didn't hit anyone.

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If someone is standing down range at a gun range that doesn't make them free game for people to shoot at them. This is so painfully obvious I'm amazed it needs to be said.

This isn't a case of a driver being surprised by people in the road and hitting them on accident. He intentionally drove his vehicle into them. Seems strange that people think getting inconvenienced gives you a license to use a deadly weapon against the person inconveniencing them.
 
Red said:
A couple of things to point out. The driver was not an employee of ICE. He was a correctional officer at the Wyatt Detention Center.

The protestors were not blocking the road at all. They were standing, and sitting, at the entrance to the parking lot for the Wyatt center.

I posted the update just for the sake of informing anyone who had discussed the incident at the time, what the judicial resolution was.

However, it may be worth viewing what I think is the best video of the incident, since it better shows the complete setting prior to the arrival of the truck. That more complete video can be viewed here:

https://www.providencejournal.com/n...ters-64-year-old-warren-man-seriously-injured

From my perspective, what the driver did was wrong. I imagine it can be argued that the protestors had no right to be sitting in the entrance to the employee parking lot. But, if you can watch the video, and state that this was the correct response on the driver's part, well, we part company there I guess. I simply would not have been able to step on the accelerator with all those people in front of my vehicle. Now, I think protestors pounding on his hood did not help, but the people are people, I can't justify just driving right into them.

Also, one of the injuries was not, as was suggested by one poster, just someone faking injury just to go to a hospital:

"Protest organizers said a 64-year-old man suffered a broken leg, internal bleeding and possibly a back injury. Amy Anthony, spokeswoman for Never Again Action, identified the man as Jerry Belair, of Warren, RI."
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I agree with you that I personally wouldn't have continued to accelerate. And watching the video I think what the driver did was wrong. He should have had at least a bit more reservation/restraint first. Maybe they would have moved if given more time and discussion first.

I probably would have parked somewhere else and walked to work or something I guess.

I also wouldn't have stood in front of a vehicle that seems intent on going through me.

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Zombie said:
If someone is standing down range at a gun range that doesn't make them free game for people to shoot at them. This is so painfully obvious I'm amazed it needs to be said.
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I agree. It didn't need to be said.
Do you agree that it would be a stupid thing for a person to do?
I'm amazed that I need to ask that question.

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Zombie said:
If someone is standing down range at a gun range that doesn't make them free game for people to shoot at them. This is so painfully obvious I'm amazed it needs to be said.

This isn't a case of a driver being surprised by people in the road and hitting them on accident. He intentionally drove his vehicle into them. Seems strange that people think getting inconvenienced gives you a license to use a deadly weapon against the person inconveniencing them.
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What’s painfully obvious to most of us is painfully ubiquitous to those looking through this with partisan eyes. @Zombie dont you know? trump won. Get over it. Since Trump won it means you can’t ever admit that your side was wrong. You must constantly act cocky and right even if you can’t be intellectually honest. You can’t treat human beings as human beings. Just as Trumpers today are tying themselves in knots attempting to justify Donald’s behavior towards Ukraine Trumpers here are attempting to justify running over human beings.

I guarantee that people like @framer and @Beer would he singing a different tune if an abortion doctor had run over a pro-life protest group.

I don’t ask for us to all be completely devoid of bias. But the amount of bias leading to bad faith arguments and ridiculous amounts of intellectual dishonesty just shows the rot of what Trumpism is doing to our society.
 
fishonjazz said:
You should do at a shooting range instead. A place where guns are supposed to be shot.

Shooting a gun at City Creek would get a person arrested even if the bullet didn't hit anyone.

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I think you're finally getting closer to my page. View red's post. This spot:

The protestors were not blocking the road at all. They were standing, and sitting, at the entrance to the parking lot for the Wyatt center.
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Shooting at a shooting range IS expected. Shooting outside of a shooting range ISN'T. It would not be a like for like if we did it at a shooting range, as that area is specifically designed and defined as use for firearms. The entrance to the Wyatt center is not the road, but maybe the sidewalk leading to the entrance to a parking lot. In either case, both foot and auto traffic are expected.

So if we went to do this at a shooting range, and I was down range, it wouldn't be the same. It's rather different, don't you think?

Pretty sure even if I got shot at the shooting range, charges would have been filed. But I'm a white male.
 
Harambe said:
I think you're finally getting closer to my page. View red's post. This spot:



Shooting at a shooting range IS expected. Shooting outside of a shooting range ISN'T. It would not be a like for like if we did it at a shooting range, as that area is specifically designed and defined as use for firearms. The entrance to the Wyatt center is not the road, but maybe the sidewalk leading to the entrance to a parking lot. In either case, both foot and auto traffic are expected.

So if we went to do this at a shooting range, and I was down range, it wouldn't be the same. It's rather different, don't you think?

Pretty sure even if I got shot at the shooting range, charges would have been filed. But I'm a white male.
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I disagree. It wasn't foot traffic. That insinuates walking/moving along the sidewalk. They were in fact sitting/standing where they shouldn't be sitting/standing.

The other part of your comparison that is not like for like (the city Creek setting isn't a good faith comparison since a shooter gets arrested simply for shooting a gun there but a vehicle driver wouldn't get arrested simply for driving into his work parking lot) is the weapon being used and it's deadliness. Shooting someone with a gun is much more deadly than hitting someone with a car at 2 miles per hour. Another thing that isn't like for like is that in your shooting example you are just chilling and you get shot. The driver of the vehicle didn't run into some dude just chilling. It was a group of people yelling at him and acting hostile towards him and hitting his vehicle. He may have felt threatened.


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I have a question
Is it illegal to impede traffic?
Like if I go stand in the road on bangerter highway and cars have to stop because of me then could someone call the cops and I could get a citation or something? Even if I was protesting that I haven't been able to get a Popeyes Chicken sandwich?


Like is protesting where people need to drive even legal? Should it be? I feel like there should be laws preventing the protesters from putting themselves directly in harm's way.

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fishonjazz said:
I have a question
Is it illegal to impede traffic?
Like if I go stand in the road on bangerter highway and cars have to stop because of me then could someone call the cops and I could get a citation or something? Even if I was protesting that I haven't been able to get a Popeyes Chicken sandwich?


Like is protesting where people need to drive even legal? Should it be? I feel like there should be laws preventing the protesters from putting themselves directly in harm's way.

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Is it illegal to impede traffic? We've covered this, they weren't on a street. But in the interest of fairness:

When It Violates Traffic Laws

Often when a driver or pedestrian is blocking traffic, it is because a car (or person) is somewhere it (or he or she) shouldn't be. Although the statutes will vary by state and municipality, blocking traffic in the following ways is likely in violation of traffic laws.

Here are a few common examples:

  • Car in the middle of an intersection. Unless your car was pushed into the intersection as the result of a crash, your car is likely blocking traffic because you ran a red light or ventured into the intersection with traffic too backed up on the far side. Having your car in no-man's-land in the middle of an intersection is a great way for police to ding you for either offense.
  • Car illegally parked. If your car is double parked and blocking traffic, chances are you'll be ticketed pretty quickly. If you wait long enough, your car will likely be towed or booted.
  • Pedestrian in the roadway. Whether you're participating in a protest or simply jaywalking, if you don't have a police escort, you're likely breaking the law by blocking traffic with your body.
  • Reckless driving. Forgot that you need to make a right instead of a left and now your car is horizontally straddling three lanes? Stunts like this not only block traffic, but they may also lead to serious criminal charges.
The sidewalk is for foot traffic. Cars will need to drive over it occasionally, but it's a reserved spot so people won't be in the street. I can't find any reason or law why people shouldn't be on the sidewalk.
 
Harambe said:
Is it illegal to impede traffic? We've covered this, they weren't on a street. But in the interest of fairness:

When It Violates Traffic Laws

Often when a driver or pedestrian is blocking traffic, it is because a car (or person) is somewhere it (or he or she) shouldn't be. Although the statutes will vary by state and municipality, blocking traffic in the following ways is likely in violation of traffic laws.

Here are a few common examples:

  • Car in the middle of an intersection. Unless your car was pushed into the intersection as the result of a crash, your car is likely blocking traffic because you ran a red light or ventured into the intersection with traffic too backed up on the far side. Having your car in no-man's-land in the middle of an intersection is a great way for police to ding you for either offense.
  • Car illegally parked. If your car is double parked and blocking traffic, chances are you'll be ticketed pretty quickly. If you wait long enough, your car will likely be towed or booted.
  • Pedestrian in the roadway. Whether you're participating in a protest or simply jaywalking, if you don't have a police escort, you're likely breaking the law by blocking traffic with your body.
  • Reckless driving. Forgot that you need to make a right instead of a left and now your car is horizontally straddling three lanes? Stunts like this not only block traffic, but they may also lead to serious criminal charges.
The sidewalk is for foot traffic. Cars will need to drive over it occasionally, but it's a reserved spot so people won't be in the street. I can't find any reason or law why people shouldn't be on the sidewalk.
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Don't think people should be stationary where cars need to drive. Walking through? Sure. standing or sitting somewhere that I need to drive in order to stop me from getting where I need to go? No.


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fishonjazz said:
I agree with you that I personally wouldn't have continued to accelerate. And watching the video I think what the driver did was wrong. He should have had at least a bit more reservation/restraint first. Maybe they would have moved if given more time and discussion first.

I probably would have parked somewhere else and walked to work or something I guess.

I also wouldn't have stood in front of a vehicle that seems intent on going through me.
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If people are protesting my place of employment, and they want me to work, they should take some responsibility for making sure I can navigate their property. You call your boss and you call the police, and let them mow down protesters for you.
 
One Brow said:
If people are protesting my place of employment, and they want me to work, they should take some responsibility for making sure I can navigate their property. You call your boss and you call the police, and let them mow down protesters for you.
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I agree. I think the driver in this instance was in the wrong.
I also think the protesters were in the wrong.

In the protesters case being wrong potentially means that they get hit by a vehicle so they're not only in the wrong but also dumb imo.

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