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The Conley Conundrum

I think there are a lot of valid points on both sides of the argument. My greatest fear is Conley returns and doesn't find his groove, then Quin keeps playing him because he's a veteran and it costs us games. We do need his play making ability but at a level he has done it in the past, not how he's been this year. I can see Donovan getting upset if this goes south and coach has taken the ball out of his hands.
 
FactorX said:
I don't know if that's fair. Clarkson's role is simplistic in comparison. Conley finds his place and this team is dangerous. I look at how efficient top players here are now and already looks scary. This is coming from someone on the outside looking in
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I disagree. If anyone has a strong supporting cast, it's Conley. Clarkson was thrown into the very weak bench squad, as well as working a hybrid role with DM, which I would argue adds more complexity. Conley had the luxury of starting slowly and learning from the main squad. Clarkson was essentially thrown to the wolves. Clarkson responded with solid basketball play in general even while learning the new system. Conley seems completely lost even from just a basic basketball standpoint, let alone the new system. Clarkson came in running the P&R right off the bat, moved within the flow of the offense, got others involved, and took the shots available to him. Conley forced himself into the lane time after time with no planned outlets, took ill-advised shots more often than not, and seemed like he didn't even comprehend basic basketball strategy. So far I put Clarkson quite a bit ahead of Conley in effectiveness in the new system. Time will tell I guess but as of right now Clarkson looks to have a bigger impact than Conley, and much much more quickly.
 
DasJazz said:
I am okay with 15ppg and 6 assists. He's always a threat and will stretch defenses with his shot ability.

Adding more scoring punch with him and Clarkson is big time for the Jazz.
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I'm not ok with 15/6 from Conley. Clarkson will end up giving you damn close to that on 1/3 the salary. Conley needs to bring much more value than that with the role he is in to earn the money he is being paid.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I disagree. If anyone has a strong supporting cast, it's Conley. Clarkson was thrown into the very weak bench squad, as well as working a hybrid role with DM, which I would argue adds more complexity. Conley had the luxury of starting slowly and learning from the main squad. Clarkson was essentially thrown to the wolves. Clarkson responded with solid basketball play in general even while learning the new system. Conley seems completely lost even from just a basic basketball standpoint, let alone the new system. Clarkson came in running the P&R right off the bat, moved within the flow of the offense, got others involved, and took the shots available to him. Conley forced himself into the lane time after time with no planned outlets, took ill-advised shots more often than not, and seemed like he didn't even comprehend basic basketball strategy. So far I put Clarkson quite a bit ahead of Conley in effectiveness in the new system. Time will tell I guess but as of right now Clarkson looks to have a bigger impact than Conley, and much much more quickly.
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I honestly would eat crows for what I said about Clarkson. The guy has developed a steady offball game and learnt how to flow within an offensive system that is completely unknown to him. Then came in and performed against the best perimeter defender combos in Kawhi/PG/Beverley.

As for Mr. Conley, despite a complete offseason/preseason spent with us to get ready, still seems to be in his "i'm the man" mode.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I'm not ok with 15/6 from Conley. Clarkson will end up giving you damn close to that on 1/3 the salary. Conley needs to bring much more value than that with the role he is in to earn the money he is being paid.
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Well we didn't sign him to that contract, Memphis did. He is Likely going to end up about a 17/7 player by the end of the year which is going to be good for the Jazz.
 
DasJazz said:
Well we didn't sign him to that contract, Memphis did. He is Likely going to end up about a 17/7 player by the end of the year which is going to be good for the Jazz.
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Did you miss the part where we are paying the salary? Memphis isn't paying it anymore, we are. He owes us what he was expected to give in Memphis to earn that salary.

17/7 is close to the stats I would expect. I'd be happier with 15/8 even as long as it is part of running the offense and getting others involved. I want to see his assists go up, not as concerned about the points. If he is pushing 8+ assists he is bringing the value. Now he needs to also button up his D and cut down on TOs. then he will be getting close to value for the money.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I'm not ok with 15/6 from Conley. Clarkson will end up giving you damn close to that on 1/3 the salary. Conley needs to bring much more value than that with the role he is in to earn the money he is being paid.
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I thought everyone agree that the goal on Conley's deal was to get us to(or close to) a championship. Anything significantly less than that would be considered a failure. So why are people now contradicting themselves by suggesting that they should expect low/take it easy on Conley all of a sudden? The bar is set high and rightfully so. We are almost halfway through a win-now mode season, and Conley needs to get his **** together ASAP. Though I don't really blame the player. It is DL’s continuous poor judgment that has put us as well as the players in a tough spot.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I disagree. If anyone has a strong supporting cast, it's Conley. Clarkson was thrown into the very weak bench squad, as well as working a hybrid role with DM, which I would argue adds more complexity. Conley had the luxury of starting slowly and learning from the main squad. Clarkson was essentially thrown to the wolves. Clarkson responded with solid basketball play in general even while learning the new system. Conley seems completely lost even from just a basic basketball standpoint, let alone the new system. Clarkson came in running the P&R right off the bat, moved within the flow of the offense, got others involved, and took the shots available to him. Conley forced himself into the lane time after time with no planned outlets, took ill-advised shots more often than not, and seemed like he didn't even comprehend basic basketball strategy. So far I put Clarkson quite a bit ahead of Conley in effectiveness in the new system. Time will tell I guess but as of right now Clarkson looks to have a bigger impact than Conley, and much much more quickly.
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Their jobs are so different though. JC made a couple nice passes to Rudy but he’s basically shot hunting out of the pick and roll... Mike is more of a connector and running the offense. He hasn’t been great at it and has been in a shooting slump. Once his shot comes around I think he improves but I don’t see him being an awesome connector at this point... better than he has been for sure but not what I had hoped for.

If we had a do over I think we figure out a way to make sure DM is the smallest player in the starting lineup and having Ingles or a bigger creator alongside him. Don’t need a true creator pg imo... but DM isn’t a full time of type. I just think we are too small with Conley against the LA teams and he isn’t good enough anymore to make them pay on the other end. The trade could be a colossal fail but it made sense at the time so I won’t kill it... in hindsight we might have been able to land Bojan and Brogdon and we’d be much closer to contention and set up a little better going forward.

I still think some sort of three team CP, Conley, deal would make sense and there has been some smoke there from Tim McMahon on various podcasts. I think we can be really good if CP needs to sit but he’s a guy that raises our ceiling for the next two years... that third year sucks... like bad... but he might be able to be good well into his mid 30s like John and Steve Nash were because he’s a basketball genius and he’s strong AF.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Their jobs are so different though. JC made a couple nice passes to Rudy but he’s basically shot hunting out of the pick and roll... Mike is more of a connector and running the offense. He hasn’t been great at it and has been in a shooting slump. Once his shot comes around I think he improves but I don’t see him being an awesome connector at this point... better than he has been for sure but not what I had hoped for.

If we had a do over I think we figure out a way to make sure DM is the smallest player in the starting lineup and having Ingles or a bigger creator alongside him. Don’t need a true creator pg imo... but DM isn’t a full time of type. I just think we are too small with Conley against the LA teams and he isn’t good enough anymore to make them pay on the other end. The trade could be a colossal fail but it made sense at the time so I won’t kill it... in hindsight we might have been able to land Bojan and Brogdon and we’d be much closer to contention and set up a little better going forward.

I still think some sort of three team CP, Conley, deal would make sense and there has been some smoke there from Tim McMahon on various podcasts. I think we can be really good if CP needs to sit but he’s a guy that raises our ceiling for the next two years... that third year sucks... like bad... but he might be able to be good well into his mid 30s like John and Steve Nash were because he’s a basketball genius and he’s strong AF.
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I think a sign and trade for Brogdon would have been the right move. They got him for a first and 2 second rounders. Who knows what we could have gotten him for, but no doubt it would have been less than we spent on Conleys overpaid @**.
 
Mongoose said:
I think a sign and trade for Brogdon would have been the right move. They got him for a first and 2 second rounders. Who knows what we could have gotten him for, but no doubt it would have been less than we spent on Conleys overpaid @**.
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I think Crowder and a first would have been close... maybe add a second first. In this scenario we would have retained our 1st this year. It would have been tough to predict that Milwaukee would let him leave... we took the bird in hand and I supported it at the time... even though I thought we overpaid by about 25% in the deal. We turned Dante and two seconds in to Jordan Clarkson, so I think some of the overpay was healed through that move.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
Why are you so down on Mudiay? You might have noticed he has been steadily improving and he showed good chemistry with Clarkson, and the three guard line-up that was so effective included Mudiay.
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He's solid for what he is. He is still an absolute non threat outside of 15' and is just average at everything he isn't terrible at
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Why is being small a bad fit on the Jazz?
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Because of smallness at the 2 and the 4 as well.
Lots of smallness rarely works. Not every team has the smallness talent of golden state.
Basketball is still a tall mans game.

Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Mongoose said:
I think a sign and trade for Brogdon would have been the right move. They got him for a first and 2 second rounders. Who knows what we could have gotten him for, but no doubt it would have been less than we spent on Conleys overpaid @**.
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In this scenario, it is unlikely that we have Bojan. Bojan cited Conley as a reason he signed and the Pacers dropped out of Bojan contention once they picked up Brogdon. You would likely have Brogdon and be overpaying one of the Knick PFs. I'm happier with Bojan and Conley.
 
framer said:
In this scenario, it is unlikely that we have Bojan. Bojan cited Conley as a reason he signed and the Pacers dropped out of Bojan contention once they picked up Brogdon. You would likely have Brogdon and be overpaying one of the Knick PFs. I'm happier with Bojan and Conley.
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Bojan came because of the dough... if he had better offers elsewhere he’d have taken them. He mentioned Conley as a factor but I think he mentioned Rudy and DM in the same sentence. There is a butterfly effect here though you are correct.

Would we be better with Bojan and Satoransky? We could have figured that out money wise and retained our draft assets. Crowder May have needed to be dumped into someone’s space but that could have happened... hell Indiana may have done that.

There were other options... I was good with the Conley deal at the time so I won’t be too critical. To date it has been a failure... it should be better than that but after we made the deal LA teams went huge... so now we have an issue against them with Conley and DM. Not sure Brogdon or Sato can hang against PG or Kawhi so DM may have to cover one of them either way.
 
Like if you use that logic, he fits because they have the biggest center in the NBA and Ingles is a plus sized 3
 
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