The Debates

[Stoked]

I think Obama was better on the facts. But everything else about the debate was Romney in a landslide.

Well according to the CNN polls you are in the minority on that. Romney won every category according to them.

 

[Stoked]

But seriously, who are those people?


There might be something to the notion that the challenger always has more to gain from these things than the incumbent. That's why we're hearing about Kerry/Bush '04 tonight.

I think there is something to it. Very good point to bring up as well.

As for who those people are. I do not know any but I could understand why they would be.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Well according to the CNN polls you are in the minority on that. Romney won every category according to them.

Well that's until the facts come out. Once the fact checkers go over all the claims, and we see videos of Romney saying contradicting things to what he said tonight, then history will show that Obama was better on the facts tonight.

In delivery, Romney was obviously a lot better. So much better, that a lot of people actually think he was better on the facts on first impression.

 

[Stoked]

Well that's until the facts come out. Once the fact checkers go over all the claims, and we see videos of Romney saying contradicting things to what he said tonight, then history will show that Obama was better on the facts tonight.

In delivery, Romney was obviously a lot better. So much better, that a lot of people actually think he was better on the facts on first impression.

Well so far they have been falling Romneys way. Granted it is the very intitial claims but we will see.

Wether you like it or not the polls says more poeple think Romney won on facts.

 

[sirkickyass]

Yeah it seemed kind of washy by CNN but that is their take.

To get back to this for a bit: It appears that Mitt's website right now says he supports the 20% across the board cut. Given that, I don't know how he's denying the $5 trillion number. I'll be interested to see how politifact scores it tomorrow.

https://www.mittromney.com/issues/tax

Individual Taxes

America’s individual tax code applies relatively high marginal tax rates on a narrow tax base. Those high rates discourage work and entrepreneurship, as well as savings and investment. With 54 percent of private sector workers employed outside of corporations, individual rates also define the incentives for job-creating businesses. Lower marginal tax rates secure for all Americans the economic gains from tax reform.
•Make permanent, across-the-board 20 percent cut in marginal rates

Ezra Klein is on presenting a fact check segment right now.

From Klein on TV:

"That was an entire debate over a particular missing number in Romney's plan: that is, if you're going to pay for this how will you do it? Romney by saying that he won't give specifics but he will do it was able to say simultaneously that it will be paid for without actually telling you what he will cut to do so."

I do think Obama tried to point this out, but he got buried in the first 10 minutes and that controlled perception the rest of the way. That's a valuable lesson to take into the second debate.

 

[NAOS]

From a pure debate standpoint (you know, where you bracket large chunks of reality) I was impressed with Romney. He had nothing to defend, and was able to full-scale attack a vulnerable opponent. He didn't fail to take advantage of that opportunity. But, when you hit the ground with his own policy (or its vague outlines)...

Isn't that saying the claim is true though? Obama didnt' claim that Romney had no plans to cut spending, but that he starts with a $5 trillion scoop coming out of the revenue side.

If Romney says he's not proposing a $5 trillion tax cut, regardless of what else he plans to cut to offset revenue, then the claim that he's proposing a $5 trillion decline in the revenue side is true. I suspect Romney is arguing that he's growing the pie to make it revenue neutral because he tossed out a "accounting for growth" proviso at the end, but then we're in voodoo territory where we're assuming the problem away.

truth

 

[Duck Rodgers]

Here's the thing about a potential Obama debate "comeback" if we are saying he lost tonight..... the last debate is this structure:

https://www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com/2012-debate-schedule/2012-presidential-debate-schedule/

The format for the debate will be identical to the first presidential debate and will focus on foreign policy.

How is Obama going to win on that front? Mr. wannabe diplomat versus no apology Mitt Romney. Not happening. I hate Mitt Romney's views on war, but it doesn't change the fact that he is going to come off leaving potential voters with their last impression of him as a man of strength. He's the perfect 'Rah Rah' - we don't have to take China's crap...we'll pound Iran into the sand if they even utter the word nuke - cheerleader.

 

[Stoked]

To get back to this for a bit: It appears that Mitt's website right now says he supports the 20% across the board cut. Given that, I don't know how he's denying the $5 trillion number. I'll be interested to see how politifact scores it tomorrow.

https://www.mittromney.com/issues/tax



Ezra Klein is on presenting a fact check segment right now.

From Klein on TV:

"That was an entire debate over a particular missing number in Romney's plan: that is, if you're going to pay for this how will you do it? Romney by saying that he won't give specifics but he will do it was able to say simultaneously that it will be paid for without actually telling you what he will cut to do so."

I do think Obama tried to point this out, but he got buried in the first 10 minutes and that controlled perception the rest of the way. That's a valuable lesson to take into the second debate.

Well I thinkt he disconnect is that Obama is going with the number of lost revenue, 5 trillion, and Romney is going with a net number. The problem appears that Romney has not, perhaps cannot, explain where the increased revenue comes from.

Obama missed a golden opportunity to challenge him. He should have asked him to explain where the revnue comes from. Make Romney explain how he makes up the 5 trillion.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Well so far they have been falling Romneys way. Granted it is the very intitial claims but we will see.

Wether you like it or not the polls says more poeple think Romney won on facts.

I don't know about that (fact checkers saying Romney was better so far). So far every channel I have been watching has been saying Romney made several questionable claims. Not only on the 5 trillion dollar thing, but also on the pre existing conditions in his proposed healthcare plan, and the Obama medicare cut claim.

Time will tell. It's not good for Romney that there is plenty of video of him saying contradicting things too.

Not saying Obama won the debate. Romney won in a landslide. But after the fact checkers are done going over everything Romney will have several false statements.

 

[Stoked]

I don't know about that (fact checkers saying Romney was better so far). So far every channel I have been watching has been saying Romney made several questionable claims. Not only on the 5 trillion dollar thing, but also on the pre existing conditions in his proposed healthcare plan, and the Obama medicare cut claim.

Time will tell. It's not good for Romney that there is plenty of video of him saying contradicting things too.

Not saying Obama won the debate. Romney won in a landslide. But after the fact checkers are done going over everything Romney will have several false statements.

Not sure what you are watching or reading but I am getting my info from CNN.

After the fact checkers go over everything both Romney and Obama will have several false statements.

 

[sirkickyass]

Well so far they have been falling Romneys way. Granted it is the very intitial claims but we will see.

Wether you like it or not the polls says more poeple think Romney won on facts.

Where are you seeing this?

Is this just CNN talking heads? I'm much more interested in the analysis than a bottom line "Romney right on facts."

I'm calling that I think Romney was just wrong on the $5 trillion for example based on his campaign website and, you know, math. I'm very curious who did in-depth fact checking on all the issues this fast.

 

[Stoked]

Where are you seeing this?

Is this just CNN talking heads? I'm much more interested in the analysis than a bottom line "Romney right on facts."

I'm calling that I think Romney was just wrong on the $5 trillion for example based on his campaign website and, you know, math. I'm very curious who did in-depth fact checking on all the issues this fast.

I am on the CNN debate analysis video. I clicked on the main debate story and it took me directly there. The vast amjority has been opinion/analysis and polls. Not to much fact check. Mainly the 5 trillion one. They are replaying the debate now...

 

[Stoked]

Where are you seeing this?

Is this just CNN talking heads? I'm much more interested in the analysis than a bottom line "Romney right on facts."

I'm calling that I think Romney was just wrong on the $5 trillion for example based on his campaign website and, you know, math. I'm very curious who did in-depth fact checking on all the issues this fast.

CNN did say there are going to do more follow up on that figure with some other organizations tomorrow and that fact checkers will be going at it starting early. Not much will come out as far as facts go till tomorrow.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Not sure what you are watching or reading but I am getting my info from CNN.

After the fact checkers go over everything both Romney and Obama will have several false statements.

I wasn't aware that Obama even said anything controversial besides the 5 trillion dollar thing. What do you think Obama said that will be deemed false?

Off the top of my head, Romney will be fact checked on the 5 trillion dollar thing (as will Obama), the claim that Obama is cutting medicare (this has already been deemed false before the debate), and the claim that his proposed healthcare plan keeps the good parts of Obamacare like pre existing conditions and young adults staying on their parents plan.

There are, of course, many other statements that fact checkers will be weighing in on. But this is just off the top of my head.

 

[NAOS]

I'm gonna runs for pres. I'll cut all taxes except sales tax. It is my opinion that with all your extra cash you'll buy a **** ton of soda, beer, and Apple products and the sales tax will pay for all those pesky social programs like educayshun. If those taxes don't materialize, well, I guess we'll all be ****ed right in the ***, eh darlin'?

 

[SaltyDawg]

I'm gonna runs for pres. I'll cut all taxes except sales tax. It is my opinion that with all your extra cash you'll buy a **** ton of soda, beer, and Apple products and the sales tax will pay for all those pesky social programs like educayshun. If those taxes don't materialize, well, I guess we'll all be ****ed right in the ***, eh darlin'?

Are you Herman Cain? 9,9,9? lol

 

[Dr. Jones]

I'm gonna runs for pres. I'll cut all taxes except sales tax. It is my opinion that with all your extra cash you'll buy a **** ton of soda, beer, and Apple products and the sales tax will pay for all those pesky social programs like educayshun. If those taxes don't materialize, well, I guess we'll all be ****ed right in the ***, eh darlin'?

Well put. I agree. Let's just hand over our money to the gov so we're all protected from ourselves. We can never go broke as long as the gov holds the money, right darlin'?

 

[NAOS]

Well put. I agree. Let's just hand over our money to the gov so we're all protected from ourselves. We can never go broke as long as the gov holds the money, right darlin'?

Just admit it, voodoo makes you moist.

 

[NAOS]

Well put. I agree. Let's just hand over our money to the gov so we're all protected from ourselves. We can never go broke as long as the gov holds the money, right darlin'?

In other words, government is badbad and juss wastes money mmmkLoL end of story hashtag.

 

[NAOS]

By the way, Obama is a hack.