In my opinion, no. I feel Biden had more empirical data/knowledge and that showed in the debate. That doesn't mean I was persuaded, but I thought his experience was pretty obvious.
The Debates
- Thread starter PearlWatson
- Start date
In my opinion, no. I feel Biden had more empirical data/knowledge and that showed in the debate. That doesn't mean I was persuaded, but I thought his experience was pretty obvious.
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There does not appear to be much of a debate as to who won Numb.
Biden won. The debate coems in when you start talking how big of a victory it was.
Franklin, I like you very much personally but I fear the election is having some kind of radicalizing effect on you. This is more frightening to me than PearlWatson or others of her ilk saying something crazy because you're not them. Please come back to us, don't walk into the light.
PKM: With respect to the "being rude" issue a good friend of mine called me and said "When I was watching I kept thinking that Biden was being an *******. Then I thought, "I bet [sirkickyass] is loving this." He was right. For those of us who have been waiting for at least two years for someone to tell Paul Ryan to his face that he's just a blusterer that's been taken overly seriously, last night was basically a joygasm. In terms of base support, I think that's the primary reason you're seeing the left enjoy watching someone bully and humiliate Paul Ryan repeatedly (and having your assertions repeatedly interrupted by someone saying that you're distorting on national television is humiliating, I'm betting Ryan is more than a little pissed today), of all people Ryan had it coming to have someone call him on the carpet.
I do think Ryan could have handled it better. Similar to what you said I thought that Ryan would have significantly improved his standing if he had just looked Biden in the eye and said "Mr. Vice President, I respect you enough to let you finish your thoughts before jumping in with my own. Please afford me the same courtesy."
All that said, if Biden had parried with "Mr. Ryan, I respect the viewers enough to tell them the truth about the policies and I'll be happy to give you some latitude when you show them the same respect for more than one sentence at a time" I'm not certain how it would have played. I know it would have been the most talked about exchange of the debate.
PKM: With respect to the "being rude" issue a good friend of mine called me and said "When I was watching I kept thinking that Biden was being an *******. Then I thought, "I bet [sirkickyass] is loving this." He was right. For those of us who have been waiting for at least two years for someone to tell Paul Ryan to his face that he's just a blusterer that's been taken overly seriously, last night was basically a joygasm. In terms of base support, I think that's the primary reason you're seeing the left enjoy watching someone bully and humiliate Paul Ryan repeatedly (and having your assertions repeatedly interrupted by someone saying that you're distorting on national television is humiliating, I'm betting Ryan is more than a little pissed today), of all people Ryan had it coming to have someone call him on the carpet.
I do think Ryan could have handled it better. Similar to what you said I thought that Ryan would have significantly improved his standing if he had just looked Biden in the eye and said "Mr. Vice President, I respect you enough to let you finish your thoughts before jumping in with my own. Please afford me the same courtesy."
All that said, if Biden had parried with "Mr. Ryan, I respect the viewers enough to tell them the truth about the policies and I'll be happy to give you some latitude when you show them the same respect for more than one sentence at a time" I'm not certain how it would have played. I know it would have been the most talked about exchange of the debate.
Really?
You have a very bizarre point of view at times. I can't tell if you're being serious or using some tactic to marginalize me instead of addressing what Biden said.
Regardless, having a tag team in this professional wrestling match has me all sorts of fan crazy. I'm sure I'll stay this way until November 5th, at which point I'll cry and quit the board out of shame after my team loses the world series.
I wasn't the least offended by Biden's body language and such. I simply stated I believe he would have been slightly better served to be tough as nails, but less on the laughter. Just a fair critique. I thought Ryan came off as somewhat cool about it all, but also not being able to hang with Biden on many of the facts.
green
Well-Known Member
How can Biden and Obama rip Romney for not having a budget when they haven't had one for the last 8 years? Irony at its best. The Democrat controlled congress and not once put forth a budget.
Again, if you use your brain, the decision is easy. Biden and Obama have been there for 4 years. What have they done? What budgets have they passed? What spending cuts have they passed? Why have they taken us from 2 wars to 4, and then whine about it? What did they promise they were going to do, and actually did?
I don't care if you think Romney is the right guy or not, but don't act like Obama is. The guy and his running mate are clueless. They had their chance. Time for a different approach.
Again, if you use your brain, the decision is easy. Biden and Obama have been there for 4 years. What have they done? What budgets have they passed? What spending cuts have they passed? Why have they taken us from 2 wars to 4, and then whine about it? What did they promise they were going to do, and actually did?
I don't care if you think Romney is the right guy or not, but don't act like Obama is. The guy and his running mate are clueless. They had their chance. Time for a different approach.
trigg3r
Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure he did say something along these lines and Biden just kept interrupting. We get it, you don't like Ryan. That does not change the fact that Biden laughing and smiling when his opponent was answering a question was perceived as rude by anyone not in the Obama/Biden corner. I think you will find today that most people in the middle found it to be childish. I guess he accomplished one thing in giving you and the far left a joygasm though......
trigg3r
Well-Known Member
I honestly thought the laughing and smiling made him look arrogant and hurt his debate performance. These type of things actually matter. I think Charles Krauthammer had an excellent point when discussing the debate. If you listened to the debate on the radio then you would have concluded that Biden won. When you saw the Vice President smirking and laughing on television then you can make an argument that Ryan won. Great examples of appearances hurting candidates can be found throughout these type of debates. Al Gore smirking at Bush in their 2000 debate which ultimately was a huge mistake. Nixon reportedly having the flu and a 5 o'clock shadow hurt him against Kennedy. The same argument was made in both cases. If you listened to those debates on the radio then clearly Gore and Nixon won them. Unfortunately, both guys were on television and their appearance or behavior hurt them.
I will say again that the VP debates matter very little. Ultimately the top of the ticket is going to be the biggest factor.
I said this as well .. and don't disagree with amything you've typed here.
Clueless has been the right and their attacks on the President. Giving this far right agenda a pat on the back would be horrible for this country.
Real Republican ideals have merit but Romney, Ryan, and the loudest people supporting them are far worse for this country. They are extreme.
You cannot support that under any circumstance. The hes a muslim, hes not even american, he's not christian, highlighting his middle name(we all know why), yelling
during a state of the union addres (is that ok now, shall we do that when we don't agree with you)? Voter ID laws, Congressmen saying their main objective
to get Obama out of office, etc This is where you want to take the country? Because your party is headed that way....
Today you had more idiots firing shots at an Obama HQ in Denver.
Do you want your extreme right to speak for you? Because they are turning your party into a far right hate machine.
When you reject them next month they will have to rethink their strategy.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
Yeah it is hilarious when the party of Hope and Change asks for specifics.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
Fixed.
Another pearl for the regressives* to choke on. . . .
*fixing the label totalitarian governance goes by nowadays.
https://www.policymic.com/mobile/ar...turbing-trend-among-democrats-in-this-country
Alan Grayson, a liberal congressman, said republicans want you to "die quickly", liberal teachers belittle, humiliate and verbally attack students who do not fall in line politically with them. Pick your example, twitter comments threatening Romney and his wife from liberals, the hateful and downright vile comments directed at Mia love on twitter and her campaign site...
Revo the hate and disgusting bile being spewed in this country is not monopolized by the right. Both sides have their fair share of it. I expected better of you than to descend to a saltydawg level post.
Clearly there are elements of the right that are hateful, racist. Whatever you want to call them but there are equal elements on the left.
I like you, you are often insightful and challenge a person to think. However you have disappointed me here. You missed your own bar terribly.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
There are a handful of minor examples on the left, true. But to say they are equal to the right is ludicrous. Obama's Denver campaign headquarters just got shot up yesterday for crying out loud.
There have been multiple people arrested for genuine assassination plots. One guy actually shot up the white house. If you think this is equal to some jackass talking crap about Romney on Twitter, you're wrong. And Obama has plenty of people making death threats on Twitter anyway.
The right absolutely is polarizing. It baffles me that they can try to deny this now after bragging about it the last few years.
You have republican congressman saying "no compromises" like it's a good thing, the Senate minority leader saying their #1 priority is to make Obama a 1 term president (and then leading the Senate to a record number of filibusters), tea partiers making death threats and throwing bricks through the windows of democratic members of congress, prominent republicans claiming the president is not really American, the lady who was running against Harry Reid in Nevada saying they needed to take up "second amendment solutions" if enough right wingers didn't win, the nutjobs killing abortion doctors and the republican leadership in their state not condemning it, Hillary Clinton getting attacked in Egypt because crazy Michelle Bachmann supported a conspiracy theory that this administration was a secret Islam takeover or something, that West dude (Florida congressman) saying the progressives in congress are secret communists, the list goes on and on.
There are a handful of examples on the left, mostly from people nobody has ever heard of. These are quickly condemned by prominent figures on the left.
There are a handful of examples almost everyday on the right, mostly by prominent figures of the republican party, and they are almost never condemned by the party leadership.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Stay in your bubble if you want. But you're still wrong, that's not what I said.
How can you even make a post if you have no interest in the other side of the argument?
Why does the right feel so compelled to ever respond to that kind of stuff? The left marginalizes the far right but the right has this need to soften the blow from the far left. Is there a psychological reason behind this? Some left brain-right brain thing?