What's new
By:

The Donovan Mitchell Hype Thread! (repository of highlights and effusive praise)

Tom Pitt said:
Elaborate on this for me. Because, the 2 foot jumper thing seems to be presented in 2 ways.

1-He must learn how to become a 1 foot jumper, but this is extremely hard to learn but physically he can still be explosive doing it. It's just learning the skill is incredibly hard (Learning how to make plays off one foot in the paint.)

2-If you are a 2 foot jumper you are not as athletic as one foot jumpers so you are limited. So Mitchell will rarely show explosion to the basket in the NBA because 2 foot jumpers don't have adequate time to make plays and he is not athletic enough to be a one foot jumper.

So which is it? Perhaps I am misinterpreting the 1st point. Perhaps what people are really implying is that DM is not athletic enough to be a one foot jumper so he will have to learn to finish around the basket/in the paint off one foot with more tricks, anticipation, and skill like say a Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Tony Parker or John Stockton and you'd think since he is as fast and longer he could do this well but learning the skill will be extremely hard and only hall of fame short guys figure it out basically.

So basically Mitchell isn't explosive unless he's jumping off 2 feet so we shouldn't think of him as an elite leaper in the NBA game?

but if we conclude that guys who are 2 foot jumpers are only 2 foot jumpers because they lack the athletic ability to be a 1 foot jumper it doesn't quite make sense when you consider Mitchell had the highest no step vertical. Shouldn't the guys who are elite leapers off one foot have a higher vertical off 2 feet?

Saint CY... Give me God's truth here...
Click to expand...

Have you ever seen Mitchell dunk off 1 foot? Go back through his highlight tapes, it doesnt happen. He does make plays off 1-foot, but it's knowing when to use which.

It doesnt make him any more or less athletic, it just means his athleticism isnt as functional as a guy like Westbrook. It's just how they are wired. I dont think Vince Carter ever dunked off 1 foot, didnt mean he wasnt as athletic as 1 foot jumpers.

He just has to be a below the rim player when playing attacking off 1 foot.

IDK anything technical about it. That would be somebody like [MENTION=181]Ron Mexico[/MENTION].
 
This talk of elite offense and defense made me realize something.
I'm admittedly pretty ignorant about defense in bbal. In my playing days too. I was a great shooter from anywhere, about as good of a ball handler as there was, pretty good passer, could finish will with either hand, could score with my off hand pretty well from anywhere inside about 10 feet, great in transition, off balance, half court, etc etc. Not many weaknesses on the offensive end. (Maybe liked to have the ball a bit too much but I was willing and good at getting it to my scorers in position to score.)
Defensively I was horrible at guarding the perimeter. So bad that I feared it. I was ok down low but not good. Too skinny to bang with the bigs defensively and too slow laterally to guard the perimeter. And hell, if I'm honest, I just didn't want to play defense.

When I watch games it's somewhat similar. I don't notice great defense very often. There are exceptions. Guys like Gobert, draymond, Ben wallace, Gary payton, Michael cooper..... I couldn't/cant not notice their defense.

A guy like hayward or ingles I only see the great defense if I really try to watch them and make it a point to see it. I know they are good defenders cause everyone says they are and there are advanced stats to show it. Each game I would see things from them here and there that made me notice but overall they never really stand out enough to make my ignorant eyes see it.

The reason I bring this up is Dante Exum.
Since we drafted him I have talked about as much **** about him as anyone here (I love offense as I said, so it makes sense cause he kinda sucks offensively).
But, he is one of those players who makes it so I can't not see his defensive presence. That gives me lots of hope for him. I think he is an elite defender to the point that if his offense sucks I still want him on the court. (I think his speed will get him easy offense often enough that he will at least be passable on offense)
So many times I have seen guys try to drive on him and he shuts them down with his position defense (refs stupidly call fouls on him too much for his great defense though. I think he has been officiated worse defensively than any jazz player I have ever seen) and often should be getting the charge call called on the offensive player.
I have seen him block a large number of shots from the perimeter too. This seems extremely special rare.

Basically, I believe in X, if only for his defense. Any offensive improvement is a bonus.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Have you ever seen Mitchell dunk off 1 foot? Go back through his highlight tapes, it doesnt happen. He does make plays off 1-foot, but it's knowing when to use which.

It doesnt make him any more or less athletic, it just means his athleticism isnt as functional as a guy like Westbrook. It's just how they are wired. I dont think Vince Carter ever dunked off 1 foot, didnt mean he wasnt as athletic as 1 foot jumpers.

He just has to be a below the rim player when playing attacking off 1 foot.

IDK anything technical about it. That would be somebody like [MENTION=181]Ron Mexico[/MENTION].
Click to expand...

I have not really watched much of Mitchell.

Jumping off two feet is more powerful. Very few people do it well though, but if you are good at it you will jump much higher. He can jump off one foot and can learn to get better at jumping off one foot if needed for certain situations. I think it is mostly a positive that he can quickly jump off two feet while moving and get the elevation he does. Learning to jump off one foot is needed but I think that is relatively easy to train but I am guessing he is just fine at it when he wants to.
 
fishonjazz said:
This talk of elite offense and defense made me realize something.
I'm admittedly pretty ignorant about defense in bbal. In my playing days too. I was a great shooter from anywhere, about as good of a ball handler as there was, pretty good passer, could finish will with either hand, could score with my off hand pretty well from anywhere inside about 10 feet, great in transition, off balance, half court, etc etc. Not many weaknesses on the offensive end. (Maybe liked to have the ball a bit too much but I was willing and good at getting it to my scorers in position to score.)
Defensively I was horrible at guarding the perimeter. So bad that I feared it. I was ok down low but not good. Too skinny to bang with the bigs defensively and too slow laterally to guard the perimeter. And hell, if I'm honest, I just didn't want to play defense.

When I watch games it's somewhat similar. I don't notice great defense very often. There are exceptions. Guys like Gobert, draymond, Ben wallace, Gary payton, Michael cooper..... I couldn't/cant not notice their defense.

A guy like hayward or ingles I only see the great defense if I really try to watch them and make it a point to see it. I know they are good defenders cause everyone says they are and there are advanced stats to show it. Each game I would see things from them here and there that made me notice but overall they never really stand out enough to make my ignorant eyes see it.

The reason I bring this up is Dante Exum.
Since we drafted him I have talked about as much **** about him as anyone here (I love offense as I said, so it makes sense cause he kinda sucks offensively).
But, he is one of those players who makes it so I can't not see his defensive presence. That gives me lots of hope for him. I think he is an elite defender to the point that if his offense sucks I still want him on the court. (I think his speed will get him easy offense often enough that he will at least be passable on offense)
So many times I have seen guys try to drive on him and he shuts them down with his position defense (refs stupidly call fouls on him too much for his great defense though. I think he has been officiated worse defensively than any jazz player I have ever seen) and often should be getting the charge call called on the offensive player.
I have seen him block a large number of shots from the perimeter too. This seems extremely special rare.

Basically, I believe in X, if only for his defense. Any offensive improvement is a bonus.
Click to expand...

Playing Defense on the lower levels, rec league, and church ball is pretty damn easy. At higher levels people will use screens and rubs to remove you as a defender which means that not only do you have to pay attention to your man, you have to be generally aware of the players nearby. Teammates can call out a screen, but if you are not aware of the screen before it is called, it may already be too late. That is why you can't just "athletic" good defense and it is a reason that Exum runs into problems playing team defense. Old school reaction to "screen!" would be to add a little physicality to the collision in order to bounce the direction you want to go and perhaps punish the screener. Many others would simply switch. Carlos Boozer and Enes Kanter would generally be defeated. Fighting through screens with NBA level athletes is not easy, and says something about the players that do it.

Most NBA players would be terrific defenders one on one against schlubs. To be an all-NBA defender you need to have rare athleticism and an uncommon mental skill set. That is why you rarely see poor defenders morph into good defenders. It isn't as simple as developing your shot.
 
Honestly, Exum just needs to grow into an NBA body to be the defender he needs to be. His awareness and quickness seem to be top notch. He just is too easy to move by bigger sg's and sf's.
 
framer said:
Gary Payton was a star on both ends. Also Scotty Pippen.
Click to expand...

Some respect for Pippen on here? I thought I would never see the day. Thank you for actually being knowledgeable about players.
 
Last edited:
framer said:
Honestly, Exum just needs to grow into an NBA body to be the defender he needs to be. His awareness and quickness seem to be top notch. He just is too easy to move by bigger sg's and sf's.
Click to expand...
When I watch exum play defense I see an already elite defender.
 
White Chocolate said:
Some respect for Pippen on here? I thought I would never see the day. Thank you for actually being knowledgeable about plauers.
Click to expand...
I know all about plauers. One of my most useful tools tbh.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Who doesn't have respect for Pippen?? Isn't it common sense that he's good??
Click to expand...
He's possibly talking about me because I called Pippen overrated in a recent thread. That doesn't mean I don't think he was a great player, though... just not as great as many people consider him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top